Now i been to 3 county fairs,two goat ropin's , An a pig greasin'...and i ain't ever heard nothing like this regarding cleaning black powder guns....

these old timers out in Forest Grove that own a black powder shop said they been cleaning there rifles with 409 house hold cleaner for 25 years and "there aint nothing better!" they say....

When i laughed at him, he asked if my gun was clean? i told him that i'd swabbed it out last night with TC # 13 bore cleaner....so he grabs up my rifle and heads to the shop. first thing he does is put a bore light in it and showed it to me....hell, i didn't think it was bad at all...then he wets a patch with 409 and runs it down the barrel .....I COULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I SAW!!!!! that was incredible! he told me most folks just THINK they got a clean barrel.....then after he was done he ran a patch with oil on it down the tube....well i'm thinking to myself "What's all this hot water and murphy soap nonsense?" i asked him about using oil products instead of water base bore butter and such and loosing the seasoning....he down right said it was BS...he said i'd be better off using plain old motor oil than that crap....worst thing a barrel can do is rust.... this all kinda went against the grain from everthing i've heard so far.....

anyone ever hear of this before?

nothing is cheaper than a bucket of hot soapy water with a little windex mixed in.

Borebutter, Great patch lube. Seasoning a barrel? Um yeah, i just shoot them! Cant get much better seasoning than that.

Motor oil is fine for long term storage but a thin coat of oil like rem oil is a lot easier to clean out if you plan on shooting it every other week.

There have been debates about the protection ability of bore butter since I first started using it. After my rifle barrel got so gummed up it would not shoot straight, I cleaned that barrel free of bore butter and never went back.

If you want all the bore butter out of that bore... boil some water in a tea kettle.Pour a little dish soap down the bore, and then fill that barrel with boiling water. Do this about three times and you will see the stuff come floating up to the top and out the bore.

Then WEARING SOME QUALITY LEATHER GLOVES ... grab that barrel and swab that bore with a quality solvent on a patch. After a few of them solvent patches, things will really start to come clean.

I use Simple Green cleaning solution on patches all the time to clean out the fowling. It really pulls the fowling out of the rifle barrels. When you want to swab the bore on the range, simple windex will do the job. But to protect the bore of the barrel, I use a good quality gun oil, not bore butter.

I've heard about using Formula #409 before and how good it works, but I've never tried it.
I've also heardabout Brake Kleen, andusing regular GoJo handcleanerthat's soldcheap atWalmart.
GoJo was originally designed to remove carbon based tire black from the hands ofrubber/tire factory workers, anda fewguys say that it makes a good patch lube too.
I've never tried GoJo but it probably has some good cleaning properties.
Ibelieved thatFormula #409 would work as good as claimed becausesomeonehad sostronglyrecommended it.
And becauseyou've justconfirmed it, it's more likely that I would make an effort totry it sometime, especially on stubborn fouling like around the drum where fouling gets cakedon.Plus I probably already have some in the house.

Simple Green for me as well for most cleaning.
Buy the gallon jug concentrate and you have a lifetime supply.
I will do a boiling water clean for long term storage or a chemical with brush if I suspect leading.

Steve

Good to know. I may have to try it sometime. But guys - don't use motor oil. Although it is a great lubricator, it is not a rust inhibitor. Use a quality gun oil which contains rust inhibitors.

I use citrus soap,and have for many years I also believe that anything useing corrosive powder needs a good scrubbing with boiling waterto get the pores of the metal clean, I no longer do that with the two guns I use BH209 in since that is noncorrosive. Lee

I clean mine at the range with windshield fluid and alcohol, pull the breech plug while the barrel is still warm, and then run a patch with Rem oil down the barrel before I case it. Once home I get a bucket of very hot water with a little Dawn dish soap and scrub the barrel really good. Pour some hot water down the barrel to flush out the soap residue (sp?) patch it until dry, then oil it again with Rem oil.

that dawn dish soap is an excellent degreaser...i agrree with the hot water cleaning and opening the pores...i was just amazed at the crap that came out of that barrel using 409 after using theTC bore cleaner and thinking i had it clean...just thought i'd share it with you guys...i supose you can make things as complicated as you want...but you can't argue with a better cleaner that is cheap and simple to use...Kirk

It's been my experience that just about any BP solvent is betterthan TC #13.
And I've noticed that it seems to leave a hazy whitish film on metal sufaces.
I wouldn't use it unless any TC #13 residue leftbehind is cleaned off afterward using something else, especially in the bore. [:@]