Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
04-30-2008, 06:12 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
Here is some very poor quality pictures and a description of how to wrap a bullet; sorry I am not a pro at writing.
Before I got to this point, I poured probably 200 bullets to get 75 perfect ones. I grade them for looks and weight. Any bullets with visible flaws are melted again and every good bullet that I keep is +or - .5 grains of the target weight. This gives me a constant product; compare that to TC maxiballs or maxihunters. Some guys wrap their bullets with wet paper. Most of them have undersized bullets, and are getting a bullet that fits perfectly after wrapping and are not sizing after they wrap the paper on the bullet. I would like to get a mould that would throw a bullet .446 and about 380 to 400 grains. RCBS has a mould like that but I have WAY too many moulds right now. I need to sell a couple I don’t use first.
Back to wrapping the bullets.
A lot of guys use a bullet wrapping board. I just use my fingers. In this first picture you can see the size and the shape of the paper, the paper adds about .08” to the diameter of the bullet before sizing.
In these picture you can see the way I am starting the bullet into the wrap.
As I roll the bullet on I keep the paper tight as I can. When the paper rolls all the way on the two ends should meet and not overlap.
When I get the ends to meet I start to twist the tail.
With a hollow base bullet you can then push the tail into the base of the bullet. This picture is quite blurry sorry.
When I get to this point I run them through the sizer die and this is what the finished bullet looks like for the 45 cal 386 gr lee 459-405-HB and some others.
On my 50 cal my gun likes bigger than .504 but I size the Paper patched bullets to .501
My 45 is .458, and it likes bullets that are .454 naked. I size these to .451 I could probably go to .452 for a finished size but the .451 load well and are very accurate.
Here is a target that shows the benefit of the paper patch.
This is the rifle. It is a TC Renegade with a 32” long 1-18 twist Green mountain barrel. The sight is a Lyman 57 SML peep, and a Lee Shavers globe front sight with a level and long distance BPCR inserts. At 200 yards I can aim at a milk jug and put the front pin on the jug and see jug all the way around the front sight. It doesn’t cover up much of the target.
This is a couple of targets from one of my 50’s. The bullet was a 500 S&W bullet made with the Lee bullet mould.
This is the rifle, it is almost the same as the other one. I made this rifle for my son to someday shoot a moose with if he ever draws.
It is a double triggers TC Renegade with a 1-28 twist 50 cal Stainless steel Green Mountain barrel. The rear sight is the same as the other rifle. The front sight is a Lyman 17 AML.
I started to think a couple of years ago that Hornady would someday quit making the 410 gr 50 cal Great plains bullet, turns out I was right. That’s what started me to thinking about making my own bullets. I started out not doing the paper patch. I just got discouraged with my lead bullets because I was not getting the groups I wanted out of my rifles. I found an article about paper patching and wanted to try it. Since then I have played with paper type, bullet hardness, you name it I tried it. One thing I have found is paper patch bullets sometimes need a wad between the bullet and the powder, I make my own. I use a 3/8 pipe nipple and sharpen one end for the 45. For my 50 I use a 1/2 “ pipe nipple. I then cut out my wads out of wool felt I get from a fabric store. The 3/8 pipe will cut a wad that measures about, .505
The 1/2" pipe with cut a wad about .507 to .508. I like my wads to be oversized to make a sure seal and not let any gas get around the wad. I lube the wad with Hornady Great Plains lube. I also use the Hornady lube on the bullet before I load it.
One thing I have found is when you paper patch a bullet you get higher velocity from your normal charge. In the picture above you can see that the point of impact raised when I shot the paper patched bullets.
For me the paper patching has opened up my options in what I can shoot in my rifles. These days it seems like everyone is going to sabots. While I have had good luck with them we can’t use them to hunt here in Idaho. So I needed to find another way, and the factory conicals in my opinion are either great or crap. I love the Hornady Great Plains 410 gr 50 cal. Here is a TC bullet I found in one of my packs I bought.
With this kind of bullet out there I had to try to make my own. I hope I can help other guys that are looking for a different way to get good shooting bullets. Ron
Before I got to this point, I poured probably 200 bullets to get 75 perfect ones. I grade them for looks and weight. Any bullets with visible flaws are melted again and every good bullet that I keep is +or - .5 grains of the target weight. This gives me a constant product; compare that to TC maxiballs or maxihunters. Some guys wrap their bullets with wet paper. Most of them have undersized bullets, and are getting a bullet that fits perfectly after wrapping and are not sizing after they wrap the paper on the bullet. I would like to get a mould that would throw a bullet .446 and about 380 to 400 grains. RCBS has a mould like that but I have WAY too many moulds right now. I need to sell a couple I don’t use first.
Back to wrapping the bullets.
A lot of guys use a bullet wrapping board. I just use my fingers. In this first picture you can see the size and the shape of the paper, the paper adds about .08” to the diameter of the bullet before sizing.
In these picture you can see the way I am starting the bullet into the wrap.
As I roll the bullet on I keep the paper tight as I can. When the paper rolls all the way on the two ends should meet and not overlap.
When I get the ends to meet I start to twist the tail.
With a hollow base bullet you can then push the tail into the base of the bullet. This picture is quite blurry sorry.
When I get to this point I run them through the sizer die and this is what the finished bullet looks like for the 45 cal 386 gr lee 459-405-HB and some others.
On my 50 cal my gun likes bigger than .504 but I size the Paper patched bullets to .501
My 45 is .458, and it likes bullets that are .454 naked. I size these to .451 I could probably go to .452 for a finished size but the .451 load well and are very accurate.
Here is a target that shows the benefit of the paper patch.
This is the rifle. It is a TC Renegade with a 32” long 1-18 twist Green mountain barrel. The sight is a Lyman 57 SML peep, and a Lee Shavers globe front sight with a level and long distance BPCR inserts. At 200 yards I can aim at a milk jug and put the front pin on the jug and see jug all the way around the front sight. It doesn’t cover up much of the target.
This is a couple of targets from one of my 50’s. The bullet was a 500 S&W bullet made with the Lee bullet mould.
This is the rifle, it is almost the same as the other one. I made this rifle for my son to someday shoot a moose with if he ever draws.
It is a double triggers TC Renegade with a 1-28 twist 50 cal Stainless steel Green Mountain barrel. The rear sight is the same as the other rifle. The front sight is a Lyman 17 AML.
I started to think a couple of years ago that Hornady would someday quit making the 410 gr 50 cal Great plains bullet, turns out I was right. That’s what started me to thinking about making my own bullets. I started out not doing the paper patch. I just got discouraged with my lead bullets because I was not getting the groups I wanted out of my rifles. I found an article about paper patching and wanted to try it. Since then I have played with paper type, bullet hardness, you name it I tried it. One thing I have found is paper patch bullets sometimes need a wad between the bullet and the powder, I make my own. I use a 3/8 pipe nipple and sharpen one end for the 45. For my 50 I use a 1/2 “ pipe nipple. I then cut out my wads out of wool felt I get from a fabric store. The 3/8 pipe will cut a wad that measures about, .505
The 1/2" pipe with cut a wad about .507 to .508. I like my wads to be oversized to make a sure seal and not let any gas get around the wad. I lube the wad with Hornady Great Plains lube. I also use the Hornady lube on the bullet before I load it.
One thing I have found is when you paper patch a bullet you get higher velocity from your normal charge. In the picture above you can see that the point of impact raised when I shot the paper patched bullets.
For me the paper patching has opened up my options in what I can shoot in my rifles. These days it seems like everyone is going to sabots. While I have had good luck with them we can’t use them to hunt here in Idaho. So I needed to find another way, and the factory conicals in my opinion are either great or crap. I love the Hornady Great Plains 410 gr 50 cal. Here is a TC bullet I found in one of my packs I bought.
With this kind of bullet out there I had to try to make my own. I hope I can help other guys that are looking for a different way to get good shooting bullets. Ron
04-30-2008, 07:52 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
RE: Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
Well done, Ron. I see your lead is 5 BHN. That's really soft and what I would want in a flatnose hunting bullet. Have you tried the wheel weight stuff for target work & plinking?
04-30-2008, 09:21 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
RE: Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
I have tried about everything. I have lead that is 12 BHN and some that is even 22 BHN. I tried a blend of Dentist lead and my soft lead that came up with a BHN of about 9 to 10.
What I found with the 45 was if I cleaned after every shot they wereaccurate but hard to get down the barrel.
With the soft lead paper patched bullets I can shoot at least 6 times without cleaning and still keep a group under 2" at 100 yards. As a rule the harder the lead the bigger the need to clean after every shot. I can't clean after every shot in the field so I needed a load that would shoot at least 3 shots in a sub 2" groups at 100 yards, these bullets beat that.
I can only size down to .451 and when I was sizing with the paper on and HARD lead it stripped off some of the paper. The hard lead also fouled up my sight settings. The hard lead would weigh 375 gr or less and the soft lead weigh 386.
I quit shooting different lead because it never shot in the same place. Now my 45 LOVES 475 gr Lyman whitworth bullets made out of chilled lead shot. I got sub 1.5" groups at 100 yards with those about any time.
After I got to paper patching the Lee bullets I didn't mess around with different moulds much, but I got a bunch of them. Ron
What I found with the 45 was if I cleaned after every shot they wereaccurate but hard to get down the barrel.
With the soft lead paper patched bullets I can shoot at least 6 times without cleaning and still keep a group under 2" at 100 yards. As a rule the harder the lead the bigger the need to clean after every shot. I can't clean after every shot in the field so I needed a load that would shoot at least 3 shots in a sub 2" groups at 100 yards, these bullets beat that.
I can only size down to .451 and when I was sizing with the paper on and HARD lead it stripped off some of the paper. The hard lead also fouled up my sight settings. The hard lead would weigh 375 gr or less and the soft lead weigh 386.
I quit shooting different lead because it never shot in the same place. Now my 45 LOVES 475 gr Lyman whitworth bullets made out of chilled lead shot. I got sub 1.5" groups at 100 yards with those about any time.
After I got to paper patching the Lee bullets I didn't mess around with different moulds much, but I got a bunch of them. Ron
04-30-2008, 09:41 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
type of paper? where to buy? what do you do with the tail on a flat-based bullet, just cut it off? how do you determine the proper cut, make a pattern with one bullet? is there no lube at all involved (or is there something in the paper)?
and no rifling marks in the lead?
and no rifling marks in the lead?
04-30-2008, 10:58 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 986
RE: Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
I think I read this right. You are sizing the bullet after paper patch application to .003 smaller than bore size of the rifle. How does the bullet stay in the bore if it is that much smaller?? And how does the bullet finally engrave the rifleing? I am not argueing that it doesn't work as the pictures sure tell the story but I do not understand how the paper patched bullets work.
05-01-2008, 05:03 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
RE: Paper patching bullets, Pictures! LONG
Underclocked
1-The type of paper I am using right now is a 25% cotton paper called "air mail paper" I got this from a second hand store but the original sale sticker said Boise State U on it. I have also seen the 25 % in paper supply stores. A guy can get up to 100 % cotton paper.
2-I don't cut off the tail. I tried it and thebullet pushed through the paper when reloading.
3-I got my pattern for the bullets from a Pattern I bought from the company "midway" after I got the .458 pattern I made adjustments to make it work for a 50 cal. Depending on the length of the bullet, you have to change the width of the paper. The long 475 grwhitworth bullet needs a wider paper than the .386 grbullet does
4- Before I wrap the bullets I size the .459 dia bullets to .454, and then to .451, then I wrap the bullets in the paper and size to .454, and then to .451 again. So I am actually sizing them twice.
5- I use Hornady great plains lube.
6-unlike the movie I do end up with rifling marks.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
MLkeith
1- The bullets are snug going down the barrel. The paper swells up I think just a little. The bullet is tight enough I don't think anything less than dropping a gun on its muzzle a couple times would bring the bullet off the bore.
2-When The powder goes off the bullet sets back and engages the riflings.
3- the paper patch works like a patch on a PRB. it works the same way. The paper protects the bullet form the gas and metal, and the paper keeps the lead from touching the bore, so no lead fouling is in the rifle.
Ron
1-The type of paper I am using right now is a 25% cotton paper called "air mail paper" I got this from a second hand store but the original sale sticker said Boise State U on it. I have also seen the 25 % in paper supply stores. A guy can get up to 100 % cotton paper.
2-I don't cut off the tail. I tried it and thebullet pushed through the paper when reloading.
3-I got my pattern for the bullets from a Pattern I bought from the company "midway" after I got the .458 pattern I made adjustments to make it work for a 50 cal. Depending on the length of the bullet, you have to change the width of the paper. The long 475 grwhitworth bullet needs a wider paper than the .386 grbullet does
4- Before I wrap the bullets I size the .459 dia bullets to .454, and then to .451, then I wrap the bullets in the paper and size to .454, and then to .451 again. So I am actually sizing them twice.
5- I use Hornady great plains lube.
6-unlike the movie I do end up with rifling marks.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
MLkeith
1- The bullets are snug going down the barrel. The paper swells up I think just a little. The bullet is tight enough I don't think anything less than dropping a gun on its muzzle a couple times would bring the bullet off the bore.
2-When The powder goes off the bullet sets back and engages the riflings.
3- the paper patch works like a patch on a PRB. it works the same way. The paper protects the bullet form the gas and metal, and the paper keeps the lead from touching the bore, so no lead fouling is in the rifle.
Ron