deer655

2500 bucks for a muzzleloader- only if its an original Whitworth. Its a great looking gun but I sure dont have that kind of money laying around.

BarnesAddict

You're taking the "complete burn" a little to literally, but of course you already know that.

And of course we're not talking about a smokeless muzzleloaders either, all of which do not have a "complete burn", nor does any CF rifle. The propellant is burned and the propellant leaves a residue, in an Ultimate or your NULA and Savage. Some propellants leave more residue than others. Even gasoline completely burns, yet leaves residue. No different than a piece of wood in a fire, it will completely burn, yet leave residue.

From Western Powders: "Out of an inch longer Knight .50 Long Range Hunter model, velocity moved up to just 1,971 f.p.s. (2,238 f.p.e.). However, loading this same load in the 30-inch barreled Traditions .50 VORTEK Ultra Light LDR, the added three inches of bore allowed a more complete burn of the powder charge – and velocity jumped to 2,018 f.p.s. (2,350 f.p.e.)."

Muley Hunter

47 fps for 3" of barrel? It doesn't seem worth it.

BarnesAddict

Grouse45, what everyone has to understand is the rifle was built exclusively to shoot pellets, which is where it shines. The issue I had was totally my fault, as I did not follow the manufacturers recommendations. Like many others, I was stuck on BH for reasons we all know and understand. I shot it from a rifle that was never designed for shooting it. It is an extremely accurate and long range muzzleloader.

Grouse45

It's absolutely not. That's the problem with the Cooper. Toby told them to use a 26" barrel instead of 24". The gain is not worth the weight and the extra length at all. It probably made the gun more top heavy to. If you need that extra 50 feet put a little more powder in.

super_hunt54

Of course this is according to the rifle, but sometimes that extra 2 inches helps in the balance of the rifle itself. Sometimes that little bit extra just gives it the perfect "feel" for off hand shots. Of course going the other way is better for other rifles. But that extra 2 inches also has another added benefit other than just the forward speed. It gives it that extra little bump in speed of twist as well. Little more time in the barrel for spin up so to speak. That means more stability over distance.

Gm54-120

Just changing sabots can yield a 40fps or more increase in MV. Ive shot the same bullet with the same charge but changed sabots. MMP short ran about 2400fps and the Harvester Short black clocked 2440fps.

I get over 1900fps with my 54-120 and a 300gr bullet. No way i would want a 10" longer rifle just for an additional 100fps.

TNHagies

Isn't the new Remington basically the same principal only a fraction of the price? Something in the back of my mind says they (Remington) bought part of the design from them (Ultimate) hence part of the naming convention.

Gm54-120

The Rem Ultimate is similar to the base model UF Ultimate but it does NOT have the Lothar Walther barrel. The Rem is also said to have a slightly different breach plug that is BH209 "allowed".

Still waiting to see some actual BH209 data in the Rem Ultimate manual though.

TNHagies

I haven't seen any first hand reports of BH out of the new Remington but by looking at the BP design, it looks to me that it would ignite reliably. What's your thoughts?