Bullets for deer
11-20-2007, 07:08 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clare, Mi, USA
Posts: 39
Bullets for deer
I have been using 250 gr shockwaves and 120 gr pyrodex. They have been lethel on deer but havn't produced much of a blood trail. Any suggestions on other bullets that may produce a better blood trail.
11-20-2007, 07:31 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Bullets for deer
We havetalked aboutbullets on this forum for a very long time andmany of us do not agree on bullets. The bullets that have worked so well for me do not seem to work for some others. The250 grain SST/Shockwave has worked very well for me. With one exception, nothing ihit with onewentover 20 yards: That deer was hit very low in the shoulders, call it upper legs, and it went about 50 yards before i shot it again.There is absolutelyNO substitute forproper shot placement.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
11-20-2007, 07:41 AM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 686
RE: Bullets for deer
I've tried a few different bullets in the few years I've been shooting a mz and the best terminal performance I've gotten, so far, has been with a 410 gr, flat point conical.The animals I shot went no further than 30 yards after being hit, a few droppedwhere they stood,and the blood trails were great. You'd be surprised at the exit wounds they produce. Now, this year I'm shooting a 250 gr. Barnes expander with 110 gr.of 777. I haven'thad the opportunity to take anything with this load yet, so Ican't I don't have anything to report.
11-20-2007, 08:00 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Bullets for deer
ORIGINAL: vance
I have been using 250 gr shockwaves and 120 gr pyrodex. They have been lethel on deer but havn't produced much of a blood trail. Any suggestions on other bullets that may produce a better blood trail.
I have been using 250 gr shockwaves and 120 gr pyrodex. They have been lethel on deer but havn't produced much of a blood trail. Any suggestions on other bullets that may produce a better blood trail.
I get a kick out of the problems y'allinline boys haveselectingbullets! I have fired literally hundreds of these here sabots and conicals in my various & sundry muzzleloading rifles. However, when it comes time to go deer hunting, I seem to gravitate toward a caplock or flinter of .50 cal. or bigger, firing a patched round ball.
Realizing that the penetrtion ability of the round ball is limited, I have developed enough self-discipline to NOT shoot a deer until I have a direct shot at its'heart-lung area where the ball is not required to bust through trees, rocks, orheavy bone to get there. I find that when I do this, the ballpasses completely through the critter, and you should see the blood trailS - one on the entry side, one on the exit side!
You want a bullet that will give you a blood trail?? Try a round ball, and put it in the right spot - about halfway up the deer's side, far enough to the rear that it misses the shoulder blade but cuts in front of the liver.
You will have a blood trail! For maybe up to 30 yards or so, after which you will find your deer laying in a pool of whatever blood he had left when he fell!
11-20-2007, 09:07 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Bullets for deer
ORIGINAL: falcon
We havetalked aboutbullets on this forum for a very long time andmany of us do not agree on bullets. The bullets that have worked so well for me do not seem to work for some others. The250 grain SST/Shockwave has worked very well for me. With one exception, nothing ihit with onewentover 20 yards: That deer was hit very low in the shoulders, call it upper legs, and it went about 50 yards before i shot it again.There is absolutelyNO substitute forproper shot placement.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
We havetalked aboutbullets on this forum for a very long time andmany of us do not agree on bullets. The bullets that have worked so well for me do not seem to work for some others. The250 grain SST/Shockwave has worked very well for me. With one exception, nothing ihit with onewentover 20 yards: That deer was hit very low in the shoulders, call it upper legs, and it went about 50 yards before i shot it again.There is absolutelyNO substitute forproper shot placement.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg
I like the Nosler Partition 300g HG bullet in a Crushed Rib sabot for penetration, expansion, quick kills and blood trails. In most cases, even hitting the shoulder blade, you will get penetration into the chest and a quick kill. Nosler has been around a LONG TIME (60 years---1947 was when John Nosler hunted with his first partition for moose) and it was the first "balenced bullet" offering expansion down to the partition that separates the head from the shank of the bullet and expansion for excellent wound channel. Another bullet that has done well for me(no fragmentation, excellent expansion, excellent penetation) is the Speer Gold Dot 300g, they are $16 for 50 at MidSouth Shooter's supply.They are bonded jackets to the core, called Unicore by Speer. Cabelas doesn't carry them. That is my first hand experience.
Another good bullet to try that a LOTTA folks over onDoug's Savage forum use is the Barnes Bullets, the TMZ in particular, but the MZ for a non-smokeless ML would work well. I intend to try their .458 rifle bullet after the season, since I have money down on an elk huntin Oct 2008and I want to use my Savage ML to 200 yards.Bryce Towsley, a well know MLer writer and gun editor,calls the Barnes bullet " the near perfect ML bullet". What he means by this is it penetrations bone, near 100% weight retention,expands to 2x diameter, shoots thru deer for excellent blood trails and opens up immediately offering large wound channels in game.
I have found that huntersthat are interested inbullets and terminal performance tend tograduate to either Nosler or Barnes (just my observation, I have not seen this written any where). Ask for this bookfor Christmas:
http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html
Read it a few times and you will get a really good idea of "Balanced Bullets", fragmenting bullets, penetrating bullets, etc and why bullet designers do things the way they do.
Also order these two free DVDs from Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/free-dvds/
and just watch and listen to them about whey they design bullets they way the do.
Bottom line there is no magic "silver bullet" that we all can use to always get the deer, but some bullets are definitely designed better than others to do the job. Best Wishes on choosing yours.
Chap Gleason
11-20-2007, 11:26 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Bullets for deer
There is always the search for that magic bullet. Lots of folks do not shoot them in the right place and then expect the bullet to perform miracles. There is not a muzzleloader bullet made that will turn a gut shot into a bang flop 100 percent of the time.i have tracked a lot of badly shot deer and a few elk for folks. Last Sat. i found a faint blood trail going across a road on the private property where i was hunting.Since i am the onlyperson authorized to hunt on the place; i followed the deer trail through the big bluestem grass for about 150 feet and there laid a doe-gutshot.Field dressed that deer and took her to the butcher: The meat will go to the food bank when i pick itup later today.
11-20-2007, 11:50 AM
#8
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: Bullets for deer
ORIGINAL: vance
I have been using 250 gr shockwaves and 120 gr pyrodex. They have been lethel on deer but havn't produced much of a blood trail. Any suggestions on other bullets that may produce a better blood trail.
I have been using 250 gr shockwaves and 120 gr pyrodex. They have been lethel on deer but havn't produced much of a blood trail. Any suggestions on other bullets that may produce a better blood trail.
11-20-2007, 12:02 PM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Bullets for deer
"When I'm having a good hand, I don't fold....."
Ditto for me. The .430 240 grain XTP and the 250 grain SSThave performed well beyond my wildest dreams. Noneed for furtherstudyby me:Itwould be a distractionfrom my hoghunting.
"Ditto for me. The .430 240 grain XTP and the 250 grain SSThave performed well beyond my wildest dreams. Noneed for furtherstudyby me:Itwould be a distractionfrom my hoghunting.
11-20-2007, 01:12 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 233
RE: Bullets for deer
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
More than any other topic bullets seem to push people's buttons. I am not going to say anything about the SW, as your experience speeks for itself, but I wish it were different, since they shot like this in my Savage:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg
I like the Nosler Partition 300g HG bullet in a Crushed Rib sabot for penetration, expansion, quick kills and blood trails. In most cases, even hitting the shoulder blade, you will get penetration into the chest and a quick kill. Nosler has been around a LONG TIME (60 years---1947 was when John Nosler hunted with his first partition for moose) and it was the first "balenced bullet" offering expansion down to the partition that separates the head from the shank of the bullet and expansion for excellent wound channel. Another bullet that has done well for me(no fragmentation, excellent expansion, excellent penetation) is the Speer Gold Dot 300g, they are $16 for 50 at MidSouth Shooter's supply.They are bonded jackets to the core, called Unicore by Speer. Cabelas doesn't carry them. That is my first hand experience.
Another good bullet to try that a LOTTA folks over onDoug's Savage forum use is the Barnes Bullets, the TMZ in particular, but the MZ for a non-smokeless ML would work well. I intend to try their .458 rifle bullet after the season, since I have money down on an elk huntin Oct 2008and I want to use my Savage ML to 200 yards.Bryce Towsley, a well know MLer writer and gun editor,calls the Barnes bullet " the near perfect ML bullet". What he means by this is it penetrations bone, near 100% weight retention,expands to 2x diameter, shoots thru deer for excellent blood trails and opens up immediately offering large wound channels in game.
I have found that huntersthat are interested inbullets and terminal performance tend tograduate to either Nosler or Barnes (just my observation, I have not seen this written any where). Ask for this bookfor Christmas:
http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html
Read it a few times and you will get a really good idea of "Balanced Bullets", fragmenting bullets, penetrating bullets, etc and why bullet designers do things the way they do.
Also order these two free DVDs from Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/free-dvds/
and just watch and listen to them about whey they design bullets they way the do.
Bottom line there is no magic "silver bullet" that we all can use to always get the deer, but some bullets are definitely designed better than others to do the job. Best Wishes on choosing yours.
Chap Gleason
ORIGINAL: falcon
We havetalked aboutbullets on this forum for a very long time andmany of us do not agree on bullets. The bullets that have worked so well for me do not seem to work for some others. The250 grain SST/Shockwave has worked very well for me. With one exception, nothing ihit with onewentover 20 yards: That deer was hit very low in the shoulders, call it upper legs, and it went about 50 yards before i shot it again.There is absolutelyNO substitute forproper shot placement.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
We havetalked aboutbullets on this forum for a very long time andmany of us do not agree on bullets. The bullets that have worked so well for me do not seem to work for some others. The250 grain SST/Shockwave has worked very well for me. With one exception, nothing ihit with onewentover 20 yards: That deer was hit very low in the shoulders, call it upper legs, and it went about 50 yards before i shot it again.There is absolutelyNO substitute forproper shot placement.
Hogs are much harder to kill than deer and shot placement is much more important. i have killed over75 hogs with the .430 240 grain XTP and 250 grain SST bullets. No hog ever went more than 20 yards after being hit.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg
I like the Nosler Partition 300g HG bullet in a Crushed Rib sabot for penetration, expansion, quick kills and blood trails. In most cases, even hitting the shoulder blade, you will get penetration into the chest and a quick kill. Nosler has been around a LONG TIME (60 years---1947 was when John Nosler hunted with his first partition for moose) and it was the first "balenced bullet" offering expansion down to the partition that separates the head from the shank of the bullet and expansion for excellent wound channel. Another bullet that has done well for me(no fragmentation, excellent expansion, excellent penetation) is the Speer Gold Dot 300g, they are $16 for 50 at MidSouth Shooter's supply.They are bonded jackets to the core, called Unicore by Speer. Cabelas doesn't carry them. That is my first hand experience.
Another good bullet to try that a LOTTA folks over onDoug's Savage forum use is the Barnes Bullets, the TMZ in particular, but the MZ for a non-smokeless ML would work well. I intend to try their .458 rifle bullet after the season, since I have money down on an elk huntin Oct 2008and I want to use my Savage ML to 200 yards.Bryce Towsley, a well know MLer writer and gun editor,calls the Barnes bullet " the near perfect ML bullet". What he means by this is it penetrations bone, near 100% weight retention,expands to 2x diameter, shoots thru deer for excellent blood trails and opens up immediately offering large wound channels in game.
I have found that huntersthat are interested inbullets and terminal performance tend tograduate to either Nosler or Barnes (just my observation, I have not seen this written any where). Ask for this bookfor Christmas:
http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html
Read it a few times and you will get a really good idea of "Balanced Bullets", fragmenting bullets, penetrating bullets, etc and why bullet designers do things the way they do.
Also order these two free DVDs from Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/free-dvds/
and just watch and listen to them about whey they design bullets they way the do.
Bottom line there is no magic "silver bullet" that we all can use to always get the deer, but some bullets are definitely designed better than others to do the job. Best Wishes on choosing yours.
Chap Gleason
I checked to make sure they have the correct sabots and I think they do, some Barnes packages came with the wrong sabots for the contained bullets.
I did send for the free DVD but it is 4 weeks away yet.
