Pglasgow

With all the talk of bedding Omegas with composite stocks, I now have an interest in doing the same with the Apex. I was think about doing that in a two step process which I will describe. If any spot a potential problem, please remark so that mistakes can be avoided.

Step 1

This step involves floating the barrel. I notice the apex barrel beds against the stock and the barrel does not float freely. So first I thought would shim the barrel. I was thinking I would use masking tape as a shim and was thinking I would use two layers (20 mils). Basically would attach the shims longitudinally on the barrel so that the shims contact the stock yielding space between barrel and stock for a free float. Then using the bedding compound and appropriate release agent, I would bed both of the two recoil lugs to the stockapplying equal torque to both screw. Then lift the barrel when bed is set and remove the tape shims from the barrel.

When this step is done, I will have a freely floating barrel whose POIwon't be so dependent on lug screw tension.

Step 2:

I probably don't need this step, so what ever comments one may have about the pros and cons of doing it are welcome and appreciated. For this step I thought I wouldbed the barrel and stock from the muzzle recoil lug to just behind the breech side recoil lug. I have two reasons for wanting to do this.First, I thought it would just provide a better platform for the barrel, letting the stock bed carry some support of the barrel for the high recoil loads I intend to shoot in it. Second, I would like to add a little more weight to the rifle for reducing the recoil of the large (up to 435 grains) saboted conical loads I plan to shoot in it.

This step just involves bedding the barrel to the free float condition. So thatits like a free floating barrel that'sbedded all at the same time.

I've been taking notes. I notice Roskoe likes the slow set jbweld for bed compound so I thought I would get it. Also I've used WD-40 for arelease agent on projects which were not gunsmithing related. Is it an appropriate release agent or should I get something else? I certainly want to do this right so any and all help is appreciated.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

I have never handled an Apex so I can not really be of much help here. I will tell you have bedded a lot of guns and one of the biggest challenges I had was with a Firebolt - probably a distant cousin of the Apex. In the case of the Firebolt the stock was so flexible especially out on the forearm it did complicate the whole works a bit.

In your description it does not sould like you intend to remove any material from the current barrel channel... So I am not sure shimming the barrel is as lifting the action out of the current seat in the stock, which in turn will lift the barrel.

I bed thereciever first but for me that is a two step process. (1) The first step is to shim the recoil lug(s) up with a very small round piece of teflon at the bottom of the lug - I think the Apex only has one lug. That same thickness of teflon will them be put under the reciever in another spot to give uniform lift - it you have two lugs then the problem is solved. I also drill four small holes at and angle in the bottom corner of eachlug pocket so that glass will be forced into those channels also. (2) after thelugs are set then I set the sides and bottom of the reciever with glass. This process should give you a really solid reciever - then move to bedding the barrel, but I am not sure I would bed the barrel, and again I am only looking at pastexperiances with BPI stocks they are just to flexible. i would really get that action settight and well the barrel floating and then shoot it see what you have... you might be surprised.

I do agree that if you plan to shootthe gun alot you will eventually need to bed the action as the stock is to soft to last forever, but if you are an occasional shooter - it might work just fine the way it is for years.

I use Acraglass as my beeding agent it come in two different forms... a gel (doesn't move at all when you put it in place) and liquid glass (they call it liquid but it is more like heavy heavy gear oil) the liguid will flow and self level. The kits come with a release aget that reall works well. I aluse saran wrap as an isolater on parts that do not have screws poking through/ Saran wrap reall works well under the barrel and even parts of the reciever. make sure that no bedding materail can getinto any screw holes or gaps that could lock the whole system in the stock - doing bits at a time is sometimes better than one job one shot.

Good luck bedding is fun but do it carefully - there should be know hurry..

mike

PS - I hope I have not confused the issue - talking is always easier and less risky than the doing...

Pglasgow

Thanks Mike,

There's alot of good information there and I am reading and assimilating. You may be interested to know that the APEX's action is different than you suspect.

First the Apex has a two lug system to transfer recoil to thestock. I guess this is because there is no receiver. This rifle has no bolt and its 29" barrel gives a full 28" of usable barrel length.

Theaction/triggerassembly drops down to expose the breech for priming and allow removal of the breech plug. A very interesting design that I very much like.

I get what you are saying about trimming the stock. I did figure on doing that, but it will only be needed on the sides (left/ right). It did occur to me that I could float the barrelby removing stock material. But I thought bedding the lugs on a shimmed barrel would be faster and allow me to leave more of the stock intact.

I can also tell you that the stock is very sturdy and it does not flex in the way you described the Firebolt. I love my Sidekick, and I don't in any way want to dis NEF, but hands down, the APEX appears to be a far superior rifle in construction and quality. I really do feel like I stole it because I got it so much cheaper with the clearance. I have even considered getting another.

I'm gonna get back to reading your post, cause you've just encourage me to look into bedding my hprs's also.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

My mistake - I forgot the Apex was like the Omega - I was thinking X-150 in my mind...

The Apexwill be considerably easier to bed.

Now that you have shook my memory of what and Apex is - I totally agree with your assessment.

I THINK - you will find if you shim the barrel and then pull down on the recoil lugs with the screws your barrel and stock will flex somewhat allowing you to tighten the lugs right back down in the pockets.. I am just suggesting -mind you - but i would put a small THIN teflon washer between the lugs and the pocket to lift the lugs off the botom of the pocket then bed the whole works with the washers in place. I use the the small teflon cutting sheets my wife gets from the store to make shims and washers...

If I ever get my new composite stock back from TC I am going to be it also... but I am only going to do the recoil lugs and the action first and leave the barrel floating for now. My Remington 700ML's are totally bedded not floating in their composite stocks and they really shoot well every one of my other inlines are floating. I am going to do it in steps and take pictures for another guy on line who wants todo his also... not that I am the master at bedding but might be able to give a few pointers....

Does you Apex stock look something like the top Omega picture... It really is going to be easy to bed.

mike

Pglasgow

Mike it looks very similar. It looks like the Omega has a larger muzzleside lug than the lug nearer the breech.I don't have the apex with me now but if I remember correctly, it has lugs of equal length a little bigger than the breech-side lug of of the Omega. The stock of the apex does not hug the muzzle side of the lug closest to the muzzle, supporting only the rear of the lug where the recoil transfer occurs.

Wish I had a way to take digital photos like you. Thanks again.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

Shucks i just added some information to my last post while your were posting this... if you get a chance go back and look at it.

I am worried that shimming the barrel to bed the lugs might cause some unwanted stress on stock and barrel...

Well when I get the stock back that is what I am going to do take pics of each step... I am not a good writer so pics work better - it is hard for me to write what my pee-picking brain is thinking- I amke to may assumptions...

Pglasgow

I think that is true if I overtighten the lug screws. What I thought I would do is put a scale to the allen wrench end and only torqe to few ounces. Do you think this would be enough to stress stock and barrel significantly or adversely?

sabotloader

Pglasgow

No it would probably not - but how are you going to know if you compress the glass to the correct point or equal thickness on each lug - you might come up a bit uneven between lugs or you might end up with an air pocket... just wondering - not condemming.

Nother question - as you look at those lugs for my Omega you can see there is very little reinforcement to the front or the rear - outside the pocket. Infact myOmega fractured the pocket on the inside.I am going to re-enforce those areas also..

Pglasgow

But I freely admit I am self-condemned as ignorant on this subject. Without your comments I am completely ignorant, not that in some amazing defiance of Murphy's Law, I could I suppose, get it right with out the hard earned experience of others, finding myself, a freshlyfallen piece of toast, lying butter side up. You are bringin up points now I haven't considered so thank you.

So do you just think I shouldonly trim the stock to float the barrel?

I see that. I think that would be a good idea too.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

No - I think you have eaxactly the right thought lift the lugs at least one teflon thickness - no more than two then check your float... (if two shims does not float it then you will have to resort to sanding) the beauty of doing my way with shims is you can try the shims in place before you glass to make sure you have what you want. In fact i shot my Omega all season with shims in place no bedding - teflon is a great product those little cutting boards that Terry gets have been a life saver for me - although she complains about having to replace them all the time - i do not take her used ones only her new ones.

In the Omega I cut the shims to fit exactly into thelug pockets used a paper punch to punch in the screw holes and went hunting... well somewhere in there I shot it to check my POI and and adjust the scope.

mike