Indy I"m not argueing with ya, but the # of shooters that can consistantly hit what they are shooting at the 400 yd mark is few and far between

Yeah. bad example on my part. sorry bout that. I was just tryin to get across my point. again. if i offended anyone then i apologize

Why would you wan't to shoot a muzzleloader 400yds? I use iron sights and a roundball.

The Speer reloading manual gives a great explanation of how the cartridge gives better ballistics over an open chamber but in a nutshell the cartridge expands when fired sealing the chamber for an instant allowing all gases to go only out the muzzle and pressures can be increased by 4 fold.

For example a .50cal runs just over 10kcup in a sidelock and up to 60kcup in a .308 rifle. I do not know the PSI conversions but they are similiar.

I guess I'm not that interested in shooting 400 yds. It was just something I was curious about. For me, muzzle loading isn't about tradition or getting back to my roots. It is just an extension of the hunting season.

When I'm at the range I like shooting my muzzle loader and one day when I get more situated in life I'll probably move to loose powder and start experimenting more. For now I can shoot about 1.25" at 100 yards with 250gr Shockwaves and 2 50gr 777 pellets. If I had a concern it would be that the two deer I've taken with the shockwaves showed very little damage.(ie very little expansion).

Tom

"This is probably the absolute limit for a cast bullet."

2400 FPS with accuracy and no leading is NOT the absolute limit for cast bullets. If you read Veral Smith's (LEAD BULLET TECHNOLOGIES) little book called "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets", you will learn what IS possible with cast bullets, AND how to get it!

I just didn't think 3 1/2 groups was very good for a 30-06and if he pushed them faster, I just couldn't see the groups improving. Even so, I suppose there are ways to improve the performance. Theyalso had problems which involved splitting the muzzles of a couple of rifles.

If I had copy of the little book, I think I'd give it to the mountainmold man so he could pursue his passion more successfully.