Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
10-13-2006, 07:23 AM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rantoul IL USA
Posts: 193
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
I have to agree with UC... Pedersoli's attempts at the inline market have been pathetic. The only positive voice for them was Toby... The bulk of Pedersoli's sales is the trad market. So don't ascribe some righteous traditional views to Pedersoli... they made this move for strictly financial reasons.
10-13-2006, 09:08 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OKC Ok. USA
Posts: 501
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
Personally I agree with Perdersolli's view point. The majority of states that implemented muzzleloading seasons did so prior to the newer inline offerings.
IMHO the inlines bastardized muzzleloading, taking away from what it was intended to be. It represents a short-cut for those to lazy or unwilling to invest the time or recognize the limitations of the more traditional muzzleloader. It's right up there with decoys IMHO.
If a person wanted to use an inline they always have the option to use it regular hunting season but they chose not to.
IMHO the inlines bastardized muzzleloading, taking away from what it was intended to be. It represents a short-cut for those to lazy or unwilling to invest the time or recognize the limitations of the more traditional muzzleloader. It's right up there with decoys IMHO.
If a person wanted to use an inline they always have the option to use it regular hunting season but they chose not to.
10-13-2006, 09:51 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 501
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
I believe Underclocked is correct - Pedersoli is looking to their own interests. They'd love for muzzleloading season to be restricted to side-hammer rifles, because many of us would then have to buy them, in order to continue to hunt. No doubt, Mr. Pedersoli would like for us to buy his rifles.
I hunt entire deer season with an inline, muzzleloading and rifle. Never have taken a shot past 90 yards. I could easily live with conicals instead of sabots; going to PRB means diff rifle with diff twist, which means somebody gets to make money off me.
No thanks, Dave.
I hunt entire deer season with an inline, muzzleloading and rifle. Never have taken a shot past 90 yards. I could easily live with conicals instead of sabots; going to PRB means diff rifle with diff twist, which means somebody gets to make money off me.
No thanks, Dave.
10-13-2006, 10:06 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 986
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
ORIGINAL: Doug S
"Inlines are not the same as centerfires": I'll wager that many of us started our deer hunting with a cartridge like the 30-30, many inlines easily come close to it's velocity and exceed it's energy, the newer ones top both. Then you have the smokelessSavage....
"Inlines are not the same as centerfires": I'll wager that many of us started our deer hunting with a cartridge like the 30-30, many inlines easily come close to it's velocity and exceed it's energy, the newer ones top both. Then you have the smokelessSavage....
10-13-2006, 10:08 AM
#15
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rantoul IL USA
Posts: 193
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
ORIGINAL: Ruddyduck
It represents a short-cut for those to lazy or unwilling to invest the time or recognize the limitations of the more traditional muzzleloader. It's right up there with decoys IMHO.
It represents a short-cut for those to lazy or unwilling to invest the time or recognize the limitations of the more traditional muzzleloader. It's right up there with decoys IMHO.
If a person wanted to use an inline they always have the option to use it regular hunting season but they chose not to.
10-13-2006, 11:22 AM
#16
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
ORIGINAL: paco97
The other view that Toby Bridges has is he wants to ban the use of the patched round ball, and he over exaggerates the effectiveness of the round ball. After corresponding with him through email, he tries to make you believe the patched round ball is totally in capable of ethically & quickly harvesting game with it. This in spite of the fact that the round ball has probably taken more game than any other projectile in history.
Most people that I know who hunt with a PRB will limit themselves to 50 yard shots, and this is clearly within the PRB effective kill zone, but because Toby wants to take 200 yard shots with a ML he wants people to believe the PRB is totally ineffective and is unable to harvest game even within the limits of the projectile.
If you research his writings you will see that he used to brag about the effectiveness of the PRB, but now he's calling it obselete, and wants us to believe it is unable to harvest game, a complete 180 turn in his writings and beliefs.
He is for an outright ban of the PRB which would wipe out traditional muzzleloader hunting.
The other view that Toby Bridges has is he wants to ban the use of the patched round ball, and he over exaggerates the effectiveness of the round ball. After corresponding with him through email, he tries to make you believe the patched round ball is totally in capable of ethically & quickly harvesting game with it. This in spite of the fact that the round ball has probably taken more game than any other projectile in history.
Most people that I know who hunt with a PRB will limit themselves to 50 yard shots, and this is clearly within the PRB effective kill zone, but because Toby wants to take 200 yard shots with a ML he wants people to believe the PRB is totally ineffective and is unable to harvest game even within the limits of the projectile.
If you research his writings you will see that he used to brag about the effectiveness of the PRB, but now he's calling it obselete, and wants us to believe it is unable to harvest game, a complete 180 turn in his writings and beliefs.
He is for an outright ban of the PRB which would wipe out traditional muzzleloader hunting.
[hr]
I was not aware of Mr. Bridge's stance with a patched roundball. Thank you for the information. I will have to do some further reading.
If thoughMr. Bridges feels this informationto really be true, well then I have to be the luckiest hunter on the planet as I have a large number of deer that "thank goodness" have fallen to the"inferior" roundball for me. And might I add very quickly.
Now I will be the first to admit, I would not nor do I endorse the shooting atover 100 yards if at all possible with a roundball to harvest a game animal. Normally I set a 75 yard limit to myself for ball, unless all other things are perfect. Mostly this is a matter of my ability to accuratly place the ball at further distances in the manner I like. I also limit my conical shooting with open sights for the same reason. If I can't see it and place my shot well, then I can't shoot. Plain and simple.
10-13-2006, 11:23 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
Pedersoli is WAY-OUT-OF-TOUCH-with the American ML-Buying public. Their reference to the integration of inlines & conical-bonding is a perfect exampleshowing this Italian ML company has no clue what the American consumer wants - or is using these days.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Toby's stance that's asking for the lifting of discriminatory practicesthat many state wildlife governing bodies currently practices. These states failto match their traditional-only ML hunting seasonwith a Modern ML-only hunting season.
Why should only one style of ML or component be allowed -- yet the other be entirely shunned? Separating seasons is fine with me. Butstates like Pennsylvania should have a ML season that prohibts traditional flintlocks. Colorado should have a season that prohibits #11 caps and conicals. Now that would erase the present discriminatory practice in Pennsylvania & Colorado.... just to name two states out of several who are not serving it's ML-purchaser requests fairly,
A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
If a governmental hunting body is going to stay the present course and not show equal rights to what a vast number of ML purchasers in the past decade are buying - in terms of modern components/accessories -then choose to discriminate against such, well that's an indication that the Wildlife/DNR governmental bodies are NOT SERVING IT'S ML-BUYING CITIZENS with a fair shake. Forcing it's citizens to only purchase traditional MLs is like telling their citizens that color TVs will no longer be allowed -- everyone must buy a black & white.
BTW..... Toby Bridges NEVER STATED he wanted a ban on roundball/patch hunting involving what more than 95% of us hunt on this messageboard.... deer or smaller-sized game. Please show me his "ban roundball" quote poster Paco????????
Nothing worse than typing words at this messageboard that are totally incorrect -- without evidence -- without facts -- without quotations.
Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Toby's stance that's asking for the lifting of discriminatory practicesthat many state wildlife governing bodies currently practices. These states failto match their traditional-only ML hunting seasonwith a Modern ML-only hunting season.
Why should only one style of ML or component be allowed -- yet the other be entirely shunned? Separating seasons is fine with me. Butstates like Pennsylvania should have a ML season that prohibts traditional flintlocks. Colorado should have a season that prohibits #11 caps and conicals. Now that would erase the present discriminatory practice in Pennsylvania & Colorado.... just to name two states out of several who are not serving it's ML-purchaser requests fairly,
A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
If a governmental hunting body is going to stay the present course and not show equal rights to what a vast number of ML purchasers in the past decade are buying - in terms of modern components/accessories -then choose to discriminate against such, well that's an indication that the Wildlife/DNR governmental bodies are NOT SERVING IT'S ML-BUYING CITIZENS with a fair shake. Forcing it's citizens to only purchase traditional MLs is like telling their citizens that color TVs will no longer be allowed -- everyone must buy a black & white.
BTW..... Toby Bridges NEVER STATED he wanted a ban on roundball/patch hunting involving what more than 95% of us hunt on this messageboard.... deer or smaller-sized game. Please show me his "ban roundball" quote poster Paco????????
Nothing worse than typing words at this messageboard that are totally incorrect -- without evidence -- without facts -- without quotations.
Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.
10-13-2006, 11:57 AM
#18
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
[hr]
That would be my statement and I justify it in the following..
I attend someDNR meetings where topics of all nature are discussed. At none of the meetings I have attended (which is limited I admit) have I heard a "hue and cry" to allow scopes on muzzleloaders in ourWISCONSIN muzzleloader season. The current laws governing the use of muzzleloaders IMO are more then fair in WISCONSIN. And I really do not think I need to concern myself with other hunters from other states wanting it their way, so they can come and hunt in my STATE. So in effect you could say the citizens of Wisconsin have made their voice heard and Wisconsin's laws reflect their views. Granted out of state hunting revenue is nice for any State and local economy. But let the STATE determine how their wildlife population should be managed, with granted, input from thatState's citizens.
When I make a decision to hunt in a different state, I might very well base my hunting selection on what laws that state currently enforces during their season. But again, that is the choice of that State to decide those laws, and my decision to spend my hunting dollars where I feel I can get the most for my money. If I want to hunt in a place other then my home State, that say for example, does not allow scopes or the use of sabots. Why should I be allowed to insist that I want to hunt with a scope and I want to shoot sabots when that State does not feel the need to do so? That State has based their laws for a reason. If I disagree with their reasons, then I simply spend my money some where else, or hire a professional to increase the odds of a successful hunt.
Further more the idea of separate muzzleloadingseasons in Wisconsin, I am not too sure I would be in favor of. While it would be of little problem for me to participate in them equipment and skill wise, I just do not see the need for it. If you want to use the traditional rifle or the inline, that is your personal choice. Just do not scope them in Wisconsin. The addition of a new season unfortunately then reacts with other current sports and seasons taking place. There is simply a matter of time restraints. Too many things, too little time.
These are my views.
10-13-2006, 12:08 PM
#19
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posts: 1,616
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
Pedersoli is WAY-OUT-OF-TOUCH-with the American ML-Buying public. Their reference to the integration of inlines & conical-bonding is a perfect exampleshowing this Italian ML company has no clue what the American consumer wants - or is using these days.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Toby's stance that's asking for the lifting of discriminatory practicesthat many state wildlife governing bodies currently practices. These states failto match their traditional-only ML hunting seasonwith a Modern ML-only hunting season.
Why should only one style of ML or component be allowed -- yet the other be entirely shunned? Separating seasons is fine with me. Butstates like Pennsylvania should have a ML season that prohibts traditional flintlocks. Colorado should have a season that prohibits #11 caps and conicals. Now that would erase the present discriminatory practice in Pennsylvania & Colorado.... just to name two states out of several who are not serving it's ML-purchaser requests fairly,
A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
If a governmental hunting body is going to stay the present course and not show equal rights to what a vast number of ML purchasers in the past decade are buying - in terms of modern components/accessories -then choose to discriminate against such, well that's an indication that the Wildlife/DNR governmental bodies are NOT SERVING IT'S ML-BUYING CITIZENS with a fair shake. Forcing it's citizens to only purchase traditional MLs is like telling their citizens that color TVs will no longer be allowed -- everyone must buy a black & white.
BTW..... Toby Bridges NEVER STATED he wanted a ban on roundball/patch hunting involving what more than 95% of us hunt on this messageboard.... deer or smaller-sized game. Please show me his "ban roundball" quote poster Paco????????
Nothing worse than typing words at this messageboard that are totally incorrect -- without evidence -- without facts -- without quotations.
Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.
Pedersoli is WAY-OUT-OF-TOUCH-with the American ML-Buying public. Their reference to the integration of inlines & conical-bonding is a perfect exampleshowing this Italian ML company has no clue what the American consumer wants - or is using these days.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Toby's stance that's asking for the lifting of discriminatory practicesthat many state wildlife governing bodies currently practices. These states failto match their traditional-only ML hunting seasonwith a Modern ML-only hunting season.
Why should only one style of ML or component be allowed -- yet the other be entirely shunned? Separating seasons is fine with me. Butstates like Pennsylvania should have a ML season that prohibts traditional flintlocks. Colorado should have a season that prohibits #11 caps and conicals. Now that would erase the present discriminatory practice in Pennsylvania & Colorado.... just to name two states out of several who are not serving it's ML-purchaser requests fairly,
A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
If a governmental hunting body is going to stay the present course and not show equal rights to what a vast number of ML purchasers in the past decade are buying - in terms of modern components/accessories -then choose to discriminate against such, well that's an indication that the Wildlife/DNR governmental bodies are NOT SERVING IT'S ML-BUYING CITIZENS with a fair shake. Forcing it's citizens to only purchase traditional MLs is like telling their citizens that color TVs will no longer be allowed -- everyone must buy a black & white.
BTW..... Toby Bridges NEVER STATED he wanted a ban on roundball/patch hunting involving what more than 95% of us hunt on this messageboard.... deer or smaller-sized game. Please show me his "ban roundball" quote poster Paco????????
Nothing worse than typing words at this messageboard that are totally incorrect -- without evidence -- without facts -- without quotations.
Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.
Quote from above, "A poster here earlier commented thathefeels the games laws which effecteach state should be determinedby that state. Well..... all 50 Wildlife/DNR governing bodies EXIST TO SERVE IT'S CITIZENS.... so let the American ML hunter decide -- not the other way around!
Yes, that certainly is a very well thought out statement. [:'(] Which exact hunter or groupdo you want to decide? Would you like it if I decided for YOU? Probably not, and likewise I don't want you deciding for me. The ideas on what is "right" or "wrong" very greatly. Yes, each state needs to decide how to MANAGE there wildlife the best. Are they going to make EVERY person happy? No. Are they going to get it right all the time? No. Are many of these people incompetent and don't have a clue? Probably, but that doesn't mean I want you to decide.
Another quote of Triple 7s from above, "BTW..... Toby Bridges NEVER STATED he wanted a ban on roundball/patch hunting involving what more than 95% of us hunt on this messageboard.... deer or smaller-sized game. Please show me his "ban roundball" quote poster Paco????????
Nothing worse than typing words at this messageboard that are totally incorrect -- without evidence -- without facts -- without quotations."
Wow, don't you remember this question I tried to ask you regarding one of your QUOTES? Can you give some "evidence" or a link, or will chose to ignore again? I am still really interested in who these folks are.
ORIGINAL: cascadedad
Sorry for bringing conicals into the computation. It's my understanding that the Whites were designed to be conical shooters. But there is no doubt that they shoot sabots just as well. Loading saboted bullets is not a problem. Start the saboted bullet with your thumb and seat it with moderate pressure on the range rod, even for followup shots. So why does a gunhave to be just a sabot shooter? Or just a conical shooter for that matter?
Triple 7....Accuracy is NOT a parameter. Accuracy is the RESULT of all the other parameters. Maybe you should look some of these words up in a dictionary to see what they mean before you use them.
Lastly, what folks say, "The secret to T/C tight boreswith Omegasis their outstanding accuracy".
As I have pointed out, that statement does not even make sense. It's something you either made up, or misquoted. If you want to argue this, all I can say is prove it! Post a link or show some literature or something that has this quote. My guess is, you will just ignore this challenge because you can't produce it. Come on, who are the FOLKS??????
Sorry guys and gals for being a part of this. I am definitely NOT a ML expert. I have never, ever claimed to be. But I can spot a wanna-be pretender when I see one.
But....I really am interested to see who the FOLKS are.
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
The Omega is a sabot gun. Ask any T/C gun tech/head-honchofor verification on that. Trying to lure in a conical into this computation won't work cascadedad.
Accuracy is not only one parameter.... it's by-far the greatest parameter to those folks that say....
"The secret to T/C tight boreswith Omegasis their outstanding accuracy".
The Omega is a sabot gun. Ask any T/C gun tech/head-honchofor verification on that. Trying to lure in a conical into this computation won't work cascadedad.
Accuracy is not only one parameter.... it's by-far the greatest parameter to those folks that say....
"The secret to T/C tight boreswith Omegasis their outstanding accuracy".
Triple 7....Accuracy is NOT a parameter. Accuracy is the RESULT of all the other parameters. Maybe you should look some of these words up in a dictionary to see what they mean before you use them.
Lastly, what folks say, "The secret to T/C tight boreswith Omegasis their outstanding accuracy".
As I have pointed out, that statement does not even make sense. It's something you either made up, or misquoted. If you want to argue this, all I can say is prove it! Post a link or show some literature or something that has this quote. My guess is, you will just ignore this challenge because you can't produce it. Come on, who are the FOLKS??????
Sorry guys and gals for being a part of this. I am definitely NOT a ML expert. I have never, ever claimed to be. But I can spot a wanna-be pretender when I see one.
But....I really am interested to see who the FOLKS are.
10-13-2006, 01:53 PM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OKC Ok. USA
Posts: 501
RE: Pedersoli Co. drops support of Toby Bridges due to his extreme views on Muzzleloading
Flat....getting a muzzleloader to shoot where one wants is not a problem or difficult and inlines or traditional and each has similarities.
The "lazy" part or unwilling is to put the time in to make sure the gun goes ka-boom under almost any weather or circumstance and more limited range ,which thankfully is why a state like Pa. one can go in the woods ,even on public land during their late season and odds are good you'll not see another hunter.
I'm glad that you use a muzzleloader during your regular season ,which is where IMHO inlines should have been restricted to in states that initiated muzzleloading prior to the inline proliferation.
The "lazy" part or unwilling is to put the time in to make sure the gun goes ka-boom under almost any weather or circumstance and more limited range ,which thankfully is why a state like Pa. one can go in the woods ,even on public land during their late season and odds are good you'll not see another hunter.
I'm glad that you use a muzzleloader during your regular season ,which is where IMHO inlines should have been restricted to in states that initiated muzzleloading prior to the inline proliferation.