Phathead

I had a frank conversation with an Ohio dnr officer about the crossbow in TN and how I wished they had put it into another season on its own. He explained that in Ohio it was added to the bow season for thecontrol of the deer herd, and the state had seen harvest's up. They also added reduced cost archery tags good until the start of gun season tocontrol the heard to a manageable level. (see their deer/car accident statistics)

The point is as stated in an earlier post it is up to the state to decide what is needed to manage the game no matter what the species. Are some states betterthan others, of course, I live in TN but hunt deer more in Ohio for several reasons.

Everyone wants to twist or guide something in their favor which is natural but trying to use discrimination as excuse to get it your way is wrong. Just do as some on here have state how you want it and try to get your dnr to listen and if they do RETURN THE FAVOR.

In no scope states are the discriminating against the person with poor vision? I don't think so, they have just set rules and guideline (hopefully on sound data ) that will manage the resource for the benefit ofmost everyone, while ticking off the fewest.

just wanted to put in my view.

Arthur P

I'm worried that these damnable in-lines with their heavy loads and extended rangeare going to get my favorite hunting area closed to muzzleloading. It's already closed to cartridge firing rifles and handguns. Frankly, it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least to see in-lines banned altogether, which I'm sure is NOT going to be a popular thing to say here. Which is why I don't post on this forum much. I fit in here about like ahedgehog in a condomfactory.[&:]

I firmly support Pedersoli's position.

mcawful

Arthur, I understand your position, as most here probably do. You won't get any argument from me about inlines. I own one, a Knight KRB, but prefer my Trade Rifle.
It was a weird coinciidence in that I am currently reading Mr. Bridges book, "Muzzleloader Hunting, Then and Now".

Chasam60

I really don't care what weapon you choose to hunt with but I choose to hunt with a Patched Round ball in .54 caliber, and I don't want to lose that privilege. Besides, anyone who thinks the Patched Round Ball is incapable of ethically and humanely harvesting big game and still bowhunts is living a life full of contradictions and only has one agenda.

There is a difference between a bow hunter and a 3-D target shooter. The 3D shooter wants to see how far away he can go and still hit the target, but a bow hunters wants to see how close he can get to the target and still harvest it.

Its the same way between Traditional and a Modern ML hunter. Traditionalists want to see how close they can get. While a Modern ML'er want to see how far away he can get and still hit the target.

I would bet that more deer are wounded and lost during Bow season, than with hunters using a Patched Round Ball. both pure numbers head to head and per capita.

The most important thing to remember is that we are ALL HUNTERS and we need to agree to disagree and stay united. Anti's have been trying to divide us for years, lets not eat our own and lose the overall war.

Paco-There are a great many out there with a limited or single agenda.Iam begining to believe there are trads that hate inlines like Nancy Pelosi hates Bush. You want to hunt with a RB thats OK by me. I want to hunt with a saboted pistol bullet,that should be OK by you.There is enough room in this sport for all of us,and the Anti's want to do us all. Maybe I'll sell my New Englander and buy a real primitive rifle=maybe like the Pa Pellet Flintlock by traditions-Legal in Pa flintlock season. Real pretty too with a camo stock and nickle barrel,1/28 twist 150gr load with 3 pellets.

Just kidding I like my New Englander too much to sell it.

Charlie

harter66

Gentlemen we must hang together now ,for if we do not we will surely hang seperately , Ben Franklin .
The point I believe is one of that the sponcer is protecting an intrest in fact a market segment . Seems to me if your going to use a front stuffer then a rifle that will out proform a 458 Lott/Win mag and roll an elk at 300yrds isn't what you wanted to shoot . My 50 hawkens (by the book) is equal to the 30-06' at the muzzle wt for wt. IF I choose to use a conical instead of a patched ball ,well what do you get wt a 28" bbl 275 gr 45 cal hp over 100 gr of pyro ? I think we all agree that we just don't say what we heard us say.

dmurphy317

I find it interesting that so many seem to think that the ignition design of a muzzleloader makes such a huge difference in the range cappabilities of the gun. The fact is that the sighting system and bullet has more to do with it than the ignition system and the shooter has even more to do with it than either.

When you put the range differencesinto mathmatical terms for the different hunting methods (CF rifle, Muzzleloader and Archery) the spread of muzzleloader cappabilities shows there really isn't that much, if any, more advantage than exists within the other hunting systems. Here are some figures to consider based on some common CF rifles that represent their range differences. Also, some muzzleloader loads that represent round ball and high speed sabot loads that would represent the spread of somewhat common loads and a couple of the extream loads out there. And finally a comparison of a fast bow and a slower bow that compare the spread there.

To keep the comparisons Apples to Apples I used a 6 inch point blank range for all the gun loads and total drop at 50 yards using the same arrow for the archery comparisons.

Load Bullet Weight Speed6" PBR
30-30 Win 1702200 206
300 R U-mag 1802960 289
7mm Mag175 3000297
300 W Mag1803250 312
7mm Mag140 3350 330

.490 RB180 1670 129
285 Barnes2851780 171
200 SW2002100 198
Savage 200SW 200 2400226
Ultimate2752300 220

Bow typeArrow WeightSpeed 50yd drop
Stick 600 200 -118
Compound 600 300 -52

Now I realize that there are faster and slower loads within each of these catagories but these showa range that can be considered to be representative of each group.

The range break down expressed in percentage difference is as follows.

CF 30-30 to WM30-30 to 7mm175 30-30 to UM 30-30 to 7mm140
40% 44% 51%60%

MLRB to 200SW RB to Barnes RB to Ultimate RB to Savage
53% 32% 70% 75%

BowStick to Compound
127%

By far the greatest spread in range is in the Archery world. When comparing normal inline and traditional muzzleloaders the spread is still within the percentage of CF spreads.When the Savage and Ultimate are included it does exceed the CF a bit but still doesn't come close to the differences seen in the Archery spreads.

Then again, none of this means much if the sighting system is the same for whatever your using. At that point it's the guy pulling the trigger that determines how well things go, not the cosmetics of the gun.

I shoot and hunt with both types of muzzleloaders and find that with similar loads I see only minor differences in the accuracy of my trads vs my inlines unless I use iron sights vs scopes. When using my GPH and a peep there is almost no difference until I'm out around 150 to 200 yards, I still can hit the kill zone just not quite as tight a group.

That's my 2 cents.