bassn81

I have my wife convinced to buy me a modern muzzleloader for my birthday to use for the deer season. I have owned various CW era rifles, this is my first in the modern lineup. I am looking at the Winchester APEX and the CVA Kodiak. Basically, they are in my price range for a weapon I wont use all that often.I know some guys dont like either of them period (not interested in that info), so what are the differences, pro/cons of each.

Thanks,

cayugad

Both rifles are made by BPI. They are basically the same rifle with a different name and some cosmetic differences. Winchester is just a trade name they purchased to use. It has nothing to do with Winchester Arms to the best of my knowledge.

Which ever one suits your fancy I guess. Keep the loads at 100 grains or less and from the posts that I have read, they actually shoot pretty good, according to their owners. I am sure if you have narrowed it down to those choices, either one would do you just fine.

AmericanPioneer

They have the Winchester Apex at some great prices at the Cabelas bargain cave. I saw some groups shot at my range last year that were very impressive by two different ones. I know alot of guys are turned off by the so called made in spain rifles but they shoot fine and are safe despite what some may say. Stick to your manual and you wont go wrong. I saw Chad Schearer shoot a small sheep with a .45 Apex at 217 yards on the OLN show Blackpowder Guns and Hunting with O'neil Williams. The Winchester Apex and CVA Brand is all they hunt with on there. You will find that the stocks are solid and not hollow like other brands and the Apex comes with a free Quake sling(19.99 or more value) and metal fiber optic sights. The Kodiak isnt as refined as the Apex unless you get the Kodiak Pro. These rifles always seem to shoot powerbelts well too. They are even recommended for them in their manuals. You can check out the Apex at this link to Cabelas bargain cave. Between the two I would go with the Apex. Also the kodiak has a nickle barrel and the Apex is stainless. These guns are all made by BPI out of spain. Just diferent names and different quality levels on each.
Apex prices:
http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?rid=&indexId=cat370001&navAction=p ush&navCount=1&cmCat=BargainCave&paren tType=index&parentId=cat370001&id=0021007

Kodiak prices:
http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&rid=&i ndexId=cat20815&navAction=push&navCount=6& amp;parentType=index&parentId=cat20815&id= 0026883

Kodiak Pro prices:
http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&rid=&i ndexId=cat20815&navAction=push&navCount=8& amp;parentType=index&parentId=cat20815&id= 0033459

bdeather

I own the Apex and I own the Omega. In my opinion I think the Apex is a better built rifle. Alot of people are hung up on the barrel issue. I own 7 muzzleloaders and I dont shoot over 100grns in any of them. The accuracy just isnt there and I beleive that is more important than a few extra feet per second. I shot a 6x6 elk last year with 90grns of triple7 and a 300grn SST and it completely penetrated the whole elk. This was with my Optima which is also a BPI product. I'm not putting down the Omega because I love that gun too. I'm just telling you I think the Apex is a great rifle. BTW I shoot the 300grn XTPs and Gold Dots and get great accuracy with these bullets.

Doegirl75

Is there any sort of warranty on the Winchester? I looked on the Winchester Muzzleloading site and could not find any information. Are the Apex's going so cheaply because they are soon to be discontinued? Anybody know what's the deal with Winchester muzzleloading? Lack of warranty/customer service would be my concern with the Apex. Warranty info is easily found on the CVA site for the Kodiak. You can register the kodiak's warranty online with CVA.

dmurphy317

They have a lifetime warranty. Check this link.

http://www.winchestermuzzleloading.com/docs/Apex.pdf

cayugad

All warranty work goes to Norcross Georgia. Traditions, Winchester, all of the BPI line of rifles are sent there as I understand it. I just sent a CVA Stalker Carbine rifle back (for the second time - same problem kind of)to CVA/BPI for repair. I believe it is a limited life time warranty meaning they do not cover repair for a lot of different reasons.

So far, BPI has been real good about covering any repair I have had other then a wood stock that cracked on a .50 caliber Tradition's Pioneer sidelock rifle I own. They told me to glue the crack. Thompson Center on the other hand covered and replaced the stock on one of my Renegade rifles when the damage was in all honesty, my fault. I called them to attempt to purchase a new stock andexplained the events leading up to the damage. I was told to mail the entire rifle in. A new stock was fitted to the barrel and hardware at no charge to me.

Triple Se7en

T/C has a "full" lifetime warranty. Twenty years from now, should you be the hypothetical 3rd owner with no store receipt, you can still get your parts replaced free. With T/C, you are allowed to wear-out the entire barrel & they will replace it free.

I am going thru this right now with a Renegade stock assembly. All of a sudden, the single trigger & lock assembly froze-up. Nothing will move -- neither the lock or the trigger. I am packing the stock assembly into a shipping boxas I type this. I boughtit a few months ago ata gun auction. It periodically would not fire a cap & the trigger has alot of slop in it.The stock assemblymust be at least 25 years old.It would not surprise me to get it back from T/C in about three weeks with a new lock & trigger -- free of charge.

CVA/Winchester/BPI... even Traditions - would never do that.

LaneNebraska

If I were you, and had my mind set on a BPI product....I go for the New and ImprovedOptima Elite in Stainless Steel. This gun promises to be made much stronger than in days past. And you can add centerfire and shotgun barrels to as you go. In fact BPI might just be back on my shopping list if these new Optimas prove sturdy.






Second on the list would be the Latest Stainless Steel Kodiak Pro.



I've shot and hunted with both before and can tell you they are both tack drivers with no more than 100 grains of any blackpowder..Except Trip7, which just sucks period[:'(]cause of the crud ring nasties[][>:].

Triple Se7en

No crud ring nasties with my Trip-7 loose powder loads. Glad you have foundso muchsuccess with your BPI rifles.