OK, after shooting the White, I know what my first choice is. Problem is I don't know if I will be able to find 2 of them by the time I am able to scrape up the funds. Translation: Till I am able to beg the wife enough so she wears down and gives in.

This leads me to a question. What makes one manufacture of gun inherantly more accurate than another? Seems like what I read here is that the consensus is that the White's are just downright accurate and shoot anything well. Also the Knights tend to shoot the sabots well, but the others not so well. Is it the quality of the barrel itself, or what?

Thanks,

Don't under rate the less expensive rifles for accuracy. Some of the groups that a NEF Sidekick can produce, even CVA and Tradition rifles are just outstanding. I think accuracy comes from the barrel quality, but also from the manner in which the person matchs the projectile to the rifle. You can take a White, Knight, or Thompson Center and get outshot all day long by a CVA if the CVA has the sweet load and the right projectile. What you find is with the higher end rifles, you tend to get one that will shoot more projectiles and do it well. You also get better fit and finish to the rifle. Also lets not forget the big thing with barrel quality.. the person doing the shooting.

When I look at a rifle I am concerned about stock fit, trigger pull, barrel quality, and the kind of sighting system the rifle will sport. I have a CVA Staghorn Magnum I purchased for $89.00.. not a lot of money, but with the right projectile, and powder charge, that rifle will do some very impressive groups out to 100 yards (the furtherst I have shot it).

After seeing/shooting the White, I must saythat is a lot of bang for the buck. The laminated stock and stainless looks fantastic and the fit/finish says quality all over it.

Any idea if any of the other White models are legal for Washington State hunting? From what I can see, the Thunderbolt only uses 209 primers, so would not be legal.

I see where they have some used/referbed rifles on whitemuzzleloading.com and sent an email about current inventory. Am anxious to hear back.

As long as I am asking questions, does the barrel length make any practical difference? Is longer naturally more accurate and/or produce higher muzzle velocity?

Basically the original G-series such as the Whitetail and Bison are #11 cap ignition and open breech so they would be legal. They would and should also be great shooters as well. The difference between the original G-series and there Model 97 & 98 was the addition of the second locking lug bolt through the stock.

Another more modern style would be the Super 91-I and Super 91-II series. I believe from my reading that both of them are also open breech design and can be used with a #11 or musket cap like the Ultra Mag. There might be an Ultra Mag left out there some where. Good luck trying to get a present owner to part with theirs. Once they shoot them, they hold on to them.

I've read that while the Thunderbolt is accurate, talking to White owners, few of them recommend that model because of the bolt. They always point people at the Super 91 model or the Ultra Mag.

When I see this kind of question I think of my Wolverine LK-II with a 22" barrel. As far as accuracy, this short barrel rifle would be hard to beat. White G- series owners claim some remarkable accuracy from their 22" models and with good reason. Excellent quality barrels and well made rifles. Many of the G-series owners have the second locking lug put on the rifle. I think Doc White can make this adjustment for you and tune the rifle as well. Most of Doc's rifles come custom bedded and tuned. They are also guaranteed shooters or else you send them back.

Granted the longer barrel will give you a longer site plain for the open sights, but more accurate? I'd hate to live on the difference.The longer barrel will of course give you a minor increase in muzzle velocity but not really enough to worry or concern your self with. Face it, you are throwing a moderate powder charge with a large conical or a fast moving sabot load.

Something you and your son might want to consider is Doc sells kits in the Whitetail G series and Bison models. They are very reasonable for the most part. You could work together on your own rifles and build and customize your rifles together as a project. It would save you money and give you something to do together. Doc might even make you a package deal. He's a real easy person to talk to in e-mails.

Last I knew, the Sportsman's Warehouse in Anchorage, AK still had some Ultra Mags. You might talk to the folks at you local store and see if they can get them for you (or from another store). There were some that got moved from one of the Colorado stores to another...but I can't recall which store wound up with them. You could go to http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/stores_all.htm#ak and just start emailing store managers (listed in the store locator).

The .504 G-series, 97 Whitetail, 98, Lightning, Bison, Super Safari, and any of the Super91s should be legal in Washington. Aside from not being legal for hunting there, the Thunderbolt is a good one to avoid for other reasons.