Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
12-17-2005 | 10:25 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2005
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Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
Do the SST's load any easier than the Shockwaves? This morning I shot a deer and atempted to reload my Omega. The 250 gr. shockwave really took some muscle to seat. Another thing I've noticed with the rifle-the sabot goes down hard for the first 6 or 8 inches, then it goes easy ,then hard for the last few inches.It's like the inside diameter of the barrel varies.
12-17-2005 | 11:23 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
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From: Wisconsin
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
The bullets are the same. It is the sabot that will make the difference in loading. For instance, the Hornady SST and the Hornady sabot are near impossible to load in my Thompson Center Black Diamond XR. The Thompson Center Shockwave with the Thompson Center sabot is firm but very able to load with excellent accuracy. Although is did run into one box of Thompson Center Shockwaves a while back that I purchased, where I had to change the sabot out. Your rifle will tell you which one you want to shoot.
12-18-2005 | 10:34 AM
#4
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,127
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From: Colorado
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
My experience with these two bullets has been the same as Cayugad's. Although I haven't tried aftermarket sabots with this particular bullet; don't be afraid to experiment with the various Harvester or MMP sabots. The new Harvester Crush Rib sabot is about the easiest seating sabot I have tried with .451 bullets. Quite a few a these guns have little "quirks", and workingthese things out is kinda fun - at least for me.
12-18-2005 | 04:10 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
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From: Idaho
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
bsteve
The simple answer is,SST's should not! SST's should come with an HPH-12 sabot. TC shockwaves should load easier - except theare some problems...
Explanation... There are probably morebut there are or have been at least 3 varieties if 250 SWs out there, depending on how old your package is.
As Cayugad and others have told the Bullet is the same except for a different colored tip - yellow vs. red. The loading difference comes in the sabot. Hornady SSt's will most often come with a MMP HPH-12 black sabot (long petals) THESEprobably will not go down your Omega. Omega's are notorius for really tight barrels.
As you probably know there is no standard in ML barrels, what you are feeling could actually happen - the bore diameter could vary, but, in an Omega barrel which is a quality built barrel I doubt that your barrel would do that, more than likely it is different levels of fouling. There could be a couple of things leading to this fouling depending on whether the barrel is new or has been used a lot. There are things that you as the shooter can do to help alleviate some of this fouling.
What I think I know about the TC 45 cal. 250 Shockwave...
a. The orginal Shockwave probably came packaged with a Harvester long petaled sabot, which really worked well in mostTC guns...
b. Then another sabot appeared a short petaled version that was really thick and most people were un-able to geitdown the tight TC barrels
c. MMP is now supplying most of the TC sabots (HPH-24)for the SW. They are a long petaled black sabot and they are .002 thinner than the HPH-12, and should go down the tighter barrels,although the TC Tech department saysthere are some really tight Omega's out there that getting the HPH-24 down is still really tough.
Just for your information, the Harvester"Crush Rib" is the thinnest sabot I have found. If you can come up with some of them I think they will solve your sabot problem.
I condsider my Remington and A&H barrels tight also - I need to use the HPH-24 sabot to get things to go down correctly, and becuase of this I now use a Crush Rib in a speed loader for the quick second shot because it goes down so easy.
Good luck in your search for information - If I can help you with anything else let me know.
Do the SST's load any easier than the Shockwaves?
Explanation... There are probably morebut there are or have been at least 3 varieties if 250 SWs out there, depending on how old your package is.
As Cayugad and others have told the Bullet is the same except for a different colored tip - yellow vs. red. The loading difference comes in the sabot. Hornady SSt's will most often come with a MMP HPH-12 black sabot (long petals) THESEprobably will not go down your Omega. Omega's are notorius for really tight barrels.
Another thing I've noticed with the rifle-the sabot goes down hard for the first 6 or 8 inches, then it goes easy ,then hard for the last few inches.It's like the inside diameter of the barrel varies.
What I think I know about the TC 45 cal. 250 Shockwave...
a. The orginal Shockwave probably came packaged with a Harvester long petaled sabot, which really worked well in mostTC guns...
b. Then another sabot appeared a short petaled version that was really thick and most people were un-able to geitdown the tight TC barrels
c. MMP is now supplying most of the TC sabots (HPH-24)for the SW. They are a long petaled black sabot and they are .002 thinner than the HPH-12, and should go down the tighter barrels,although the TC Tech department saysthere are some really tight Omega's out there that getting the HPH-24 down is still really tough.
Just for your information, the Harvester"Crush Rib" is the thinnest sabot I have found. If you can come up with some of them I think they will solve your sabot problem.
I condsider my Remington and A&H barrels tight also - I need to use the HPH-24 sabot to get things to go down correctly, and becuase of this I now use a Crush Rib in a speed loader for the quick second shot because it goes down so easy.
Good luck in your search for information - If I can help you with anything else let me know.
12-18-2005 | 06:25 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 201
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RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
I bought these ShockWaves a year ago. The rifle has been fired about 50-60 times. I try do do a good job cleaning the barrel. I use boiling water with dish detergent. First I swab the barrel with cloth patches until they come out clean, then I use a 20 ga. bronze brush, then a couple more dry cloth patches. Is there a better way to clean the rifle. I'm using 2/50 gr. Triple 7 pellets and Winchester primers. Is there a source for the Harvester sabots?
12-18-2005 | 06:42 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 597
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From: Upstate New York-Broome County
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
bsteve-Hot water and soap will clean powder fouling ok.If you are shooting 777 or BM-3,plain old water will work.I use Cayugads formula to do normal cleaning.(50% winshield washer fluid-50% alcohol) followed up with a patch of Rem oil.If you shoot enough sabots,you will pick up plastic fouling on any imperfections in your bore,and have to use a solvent to remove.I use Benchrest copper and plastic solvent every now and again.I have a Rem 700-ML that got so fouled,it shot 9" groups.Took a lot of cleaning to bring it back.
Charlie
Charlie
12-18-2005 | 07:40 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
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RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
12-18-2005 | 07:49 PM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
bsteve
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR
This is one source there are several others on the net, but this is where I got mine. The HPH-24's should work, on a clean barrel you should be able to insert the sabot/bullet combination - push it down with your thumb and push it home with yourram rod. If you are unable todo this do try the Crush Rib.
Do you ran adamp patch after each shot - I use Windex @ the range and spit when I am hunting,to get excess fouling? Nowyou can not do this all the time when you are hunting I know - but when you can try it.
Gee Whiz! - Your rifle is like brand new. And it sounds like your cleanig regement should work just fine. I don't even use the brush... the boiling water will cause the plastic that might be in the barrel to soften and almost lift itself from the lands. The real trick is to get the barrel smooth, I hesitate to say polished but that is what it will be when your barrel is really ready. When you have your barrel completely clean and before you lubricate it push a cotton ball down through the bore, then look and see if you left any cotton in the barrel.
There is a couple of ways you can work your barrel in to the smooth finish. 1) shoot a couple of packages of lead conicals through the gun, the conicals will help smooth out the bore. 2) Pick up a jar of J-B bore paste - follow the directions on the jar and work that through your barrel with your ram rod and a bore swab.
The closer your bore is to being smooth the less fouling you will incurr. I really can't say that I suffer plastic fouling at all anymore. But I have a whole lot more rounds through all of my barrels.
Here is a copy of some instructions form Cayuagd hope he doesn't mind me bring these over - he is a much better writer than I...
Good luck - keep asking questions...
Is there a source for the Harvester sabots?
This is one source there are several others on the net, but this is where I got mine. The HPH-24's should work, on a clean barrel you should be able to insert the sabot/bullet combination - push it down with your thumb and push it home with yourram rod. If you are unable todo this do try the Crush Rib.
Do you ran adamp patch after each shot - I use Windex @ the range and spit when I am hunting,to get excess fouling? Nowyou can not do this all the time when you are hunting I know - but when you can try it.
The rifle has been fired about 50-60 times.
There is a couple of ways you can work your barrel in to the smooth finish. 1) shoot a couple of packages of lead conicals through the gun, the conicals will help smooth out the bore. 2) Pick up a jar of J-B bore paste - follow the directions on the jar and work that through your barrel with your ram rod and a bore swab.
The closer your bore is to being smooth the less fouling you will incurr. I really can't say that I suffer plastic fouling at all anymore. But I have a whole lot more rounds through all of my barrels.
Here is a copy of some instructions form Cayuagd hope he doesn't mind me bring these over - he is a much better writer than I...
I have lapped a number of barrels using the method you describe only I put the valve grinding compound now, on a small piece of Scotch Brite Scouring Pad. What you need to remember is lapping is a process that actually removes metal from the bore of you barrel. Therefore lapping is kind of a last resort for a rifle when nothing else seems to work to make the rifle accurate. Lapping is also used when a rifle is in such poor condition that it is about the only way to possibly save the barrel.
What you do to determine if your rifle even is close to needing any real work, is take some cotton balls and put them on a patch worm. Then slowly push that to the breech and pull it back out. If you drop a light down the bore, this in the case of a traditional rifle or in an inline shine a light through the breech towards the muzzle, look to see if any of the cotton strands are hanging from the walls of the bore.
A few strands of cotton fiber is no big deal. All bores will normally grab some of the fibers. If you see a spot that has a considerable concentration of fibers, that is usually a sign of a ruff spot in the bore. Another way to check the bore is to shoot patched roundballs through it. Then check the patches. If the patches are shredded, that is a sign of possible ruff spots in the bore of the rifle. This still does not mean that the rifle needs to be lapped. It just means it needs some attention.
Many people with new rifles will shoot a box of patched round ball through the rifle or a box of pure lead conical through the rifle. This many times will smooth out any ruff spots that were left from the milling of the barrel. It will also many times improve the accuracy of the rifle too.
Another easy way to smooth a barrel is with some J-B Bore Paste and some Scotch Brite Pad. Take a patch worm and put a small amount of pad on the worm. Now dip that in the bore paste and give the barrel 50 strokes. A stroke is down and all the way back up. Change or re-dip the pad every 15-20 strokes. After that wash the barrel with hot soapy water and then run some solvent patches through it. It should shine like a new silver dollar now.
Many years ago a person shot their sidelock rifle during hunting season and then for some reason unknown to me, they just propped it in a corner in the basement unattended for the next five months. When they finally saw it there the rifle was a mess. Rust was all over the outside of the rifle, the nipple was rusted into the rifle, and the bore of the rifle was all rust. They considered it a lost cause. So they gave that rifle to me, thinking I could use parts off it. Instead, I took valve grinding compound and lapped all the rust out of the barrel. Then I took J-B Bore Paste and polished the barrel. Then at night when having nothing to do I continued to run hot soap and water patches through the barrel. Finally, the patches came out light gray. I cleaned the outside of the barrel, put a new hot shot nipple on it, and now, it shoots perfect bulls all day long with 70 grains of Goex 3f and a patched roundball. That's a case where the barrel had to be lapped.
Another rifle was brought to me and we tried everything to make that rifle shoot. It would not hold a constant group. I finally lapped the barrel doing only a 30 stroke lapp. After I polished the bore and cleaned it, the rifle suddenly began to behave and they are still shooting and hunting with that rifle as far as I know.
Most new rifles if you lapp them, make it a very light lapp if any. I actually prefer to see someone if they feel it needs work to J-B Bore polish the bore. Do about 50 strokes and then clean it. It will often times make a stubborn rifle behave...
What you do to determine if your rifle even is close to needing any real work, is take some cotton balls and put them on a patch worm. Then slowly push that to the breech and pull it back out. If you drop a light down the bore, this in the case of a traditional rifle or in an inline shine a light through the breech towards the muzzle, look to see if any of the cotton strands are hanging from the walls of the bore.
A few strands of cotton fiber is no big deal. All bores will normally grab some of the fibers. If you see a spot that has a considerable concentration of fibers, that is usually a sign of a ruff spot in the bore. Another way to check the bore is to shoot patched roundballs through it. Then check the patches. If the patches are shredded, that is a sign of possible ruff spots in the bore of the rifle. This still does not mean that the rifle needs to be lapped. It just means it needs some attention.
Many people with new rifles will shoot a box of patched round ball through the rifle or a box of pure lead conical through the rifle. This many times will smooth out any ruff spots that were left from the milling of the barrel. It will also many times improve the accuracy of the rifle too.
Another easy way to smooth a barrel is with some J-B Bore Paste and some Scotch Brite Pad. Take a patch worm and put a small amount of pad on the worm. Now dip that in the bore paste and give the barrel 50 strokes. A stroke is down and all the way back up. Change or re-dip the pad every 15-20 strokes. After that wash the barrel with hot soapy water and then run some solvent patches through it. It should shine like a new silver dollar now.
Many years ago a person shot their sidelock rifle during hunting season and then for some reason unknown to me, they just propped it in a corner in the basement unattended for the next five months. When they finally saw it there the rifle was a mess. Rust was all over the outside of the rifle, the nipple was rusted into the rifle, and the bore of the rifle was all rust. They considered it a lost cause. So they gave that rifle to me, thinking I could use parts off it. Instead, I took valve grinding compound and lapped all the rust out of the barrel. Then I took J-B Bore Paste and polished the barrel. Then at night when having nothing to do I continued to run hot soap and water patches through the barrel. Finally, the patches came out light gray. I cleaned the outside of the barrel, put a new hot shot nipple on it, and now, it shoots perfect bulls all day long with 70 grains of Goex 3f and a patched roundball. That's a case where the barrel had to be lapped.
Another rifle was brought to me and we tried everything to make that rifle shoot. It would not hold a constant group. I finally lapped the barrel doing only a 30 stroke lapp. After I polished the bore and cleaned it, the rifle suddenly began to behave and they are still shooting and hunting with that rifle as far as I know.
Most new rifles if you lapp them, make it a very light lapp if any. I actually prefer to see someone if they feel it needs work to J-B Bore polish the bore. Do about 50 strokes and then clean it. It will often times make a stubborn rifle behave...
12-18-2005 | 08:53 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
RE: Shockwave vs. Hornaday SST
I wet swab the barrel after every shot at the range. When I'm hunting I just reload. Yesteday I shot a doe. An eight pointer steped out of the thicket right after the shot and stood there looking at her. By the time I reloaded he was gone. I'm hoping he shows himself tomorrow morning ,our season ends on tuesday.Thanks for the links, I've done quite a bit of business with MidSouth.
