My experience with these two bullets has been the same as Cayugad's. Although I haven't tried aftermarket sabots with this particular bullet; don't be afraid to experiment with the various Harvester or MMP sabots. The new Harvester Crush Rib sabot is about the easiest seating sabot I have tried with .451 bullets. Quite a few a these guns have little "quirks", and workingthese things out is kinda fun - at least for me.