I started w powerbelts, and everything was great. I could start them w/ my thumb.Then I tried hornady's and WOW they were hard to seat. Then I tried Barnes X's and HOLY COW I needed a jack hammer to get them down the barrel. I have always loved the terminal performance of theX bullets, but there is no way I can hunt w/ these, a follow-up shot wouldtake 3-4min to get loaded. Any suggestions? Possible explanations? this isnt normal is it? the accuracy is still good. Are the powerbelt hollow points a good enough elk bullet? I'm going to stay w/ the powerbelts for my sons deer hunt.

Are the powerbelt hollow points a good enough elk bullet?

You didn't say what caliber you are shooting, or the twist of your rifling-but if your rifle will handle the 444-grain Power Belt with 100-120 grains of FFg or the equivalent in a substitute powder,it will knock an elk on his keester!!

In addition, some states (like CO) prohibit sabotted bullets, but allow Power Belts. IMO, a heavy full diameter lead slug at medium velocity (1300-1600 FPS) is better than an subcaliber sabotted pistol bullet for heavy game.

Randy posted this on other forums, hope it helps!

"How to Select the Right MMP Sabot for the Job

Enough phone calls and e-mails have come through asking, "What is the Best Sabot?" to attempt to address it in a brief article. So very often, the conversation about a saboted bullet turns to "how does it load?" Of course, the question is not really how the sabot loads at all-- it is how your gun's barrel "loads." The sabots are far more forgiving than steel, and there are no universal muzzleloading barrel bore dimensions, so it is our job to select the right sabot for our individual gun's bore. Not all bullets on the market mic out at the exact stated diameter, either-- which just adds more confusion.

Lighter bullets normally have less bearing surface at their sides, so automatically a 250 XTP will be a bit easier to load than its 300 grain XTP counterpart. MMP Sabots has been around for some twenty years now, and most of the sabots ever shot from a muzzleloader have been made by MMP-- which stands for "Muzzleload Magnum Products." They have long been the best sabots on the market, and Del Ramsey constantly strives to make them better with every new formulation.

There is no such thing as a "Magnum" sabot, and no such thing as a "High Pressure Sabot." These terms are tossed about by gun makers and various other parties-- but not by MMP. They are best forgotten about, as those terms are meaningless. There are older, outdated formulations, of course, but none are "low-pressure sabots." There is only one way to be absolutely certain you are getting the best, current formulation sabots (with a few exceptions) and that is to call MMP at (870) 741-5019. You can also visit their website at http://www.mmpsabots.com . Getting sabots from MMP is easier, and cheaper than you think. They come in bags of 50 sabots per bag, there is no minimum order, no handling charge, no tax outside of Arkansas, and MMP is happy to pay your postage for you. Not only that, if you order 5 bags you get 10% off. If you order 10 bags, you get 20% off. Still, no tax, no handling fee, and MMP pays for the shipping.

There are two basic lines of MMP sabots: the "High Performance Standard Sabot Series" and the "HPH Series." The HP standard sabots are $7.25 per bag, the HPH series sabots are $10.25 per bag. The HPH sabots are designed for hotter charges, and have thicker or reinforced bases. However, they may not be necessary at all-- as recoil has nothing directly to do with pressure inflicted on a sabot. All MMP sabots are made from similar MMP proprietary materials, MMP's latest and best formulation polymer blends with either the standard or HPH series. The sole exception to this is the HPH 50 / 40 Blue sabots that have a unique formulation all their own.

It comes up sooner or later, so I will mention it sooner: "Why do the HPH sabots cost that extra five or six cents each?" The answer is a combination of very expensive, custom, multi-cavity molds and a longer cycle time when producing them. It just takes more time to make an HPH than a standard sabot.

You want a sabot generally long enough to cover the bearing surface of the bullet. For the Hornady 250 grain and 300 grain .452 XTPs, the standard 50 / 452 Black sabot works famously, and that includes for use in the Savage 10ML-II. 42 grains of Vihtavouri N110 pushing a 250 gr. XTP in a 50 / 452 Black sabot is one of the most accurate loads there is in the Savage 10ML-II. This sabot is one of MMP's oldest designs, and still works great due to the many polymer formulation updates. It is also called the "MMP" sabot, or the MMP short black sabot. If the 300 gr. .452 XTP loads a bit tighter than you prefer, you might want to try the 250 gr. .452 XTP. For example, if you want a bullet that loads just a bit easier you can go with the Sierra "Sportsmaster" .4515 dia. (45 cal) 300 gr. JSP. The slightly smaller outside diameter makes a difference you can feel.

There are only three bullet makers that I know of that are using 100% MMP current formulation sabots at present: Barnes Bullets, Buffalo Bullets, and Mark Lynch's Hunterman Bullets. The rest use a mishmash of sabots of unspecified make, or may use outdated MMP sabots.

Barnes MZ-Expanders come automatically with MMP 50 / 452 Black HPH12 long-petaled sabots in 250 and 300 grain. Here again, while as supplied may load and shoot beautifully for you, if they load unbearably tight-- all is not lost. Just sub in the MMP 50 / 452 Black HPH-24 sabots. The HPH-24 Black sabots give you a stated smaller assembled OD of about .002 inches less than the HPH-12 sabots, and that is a whole heck of a lot to a sabot. The example MMP gives is with a .452" bullet: HPH-12 = .507 - .508" assembled OD, HPH-24 = .505 - .506" assembled outside diameter. Though I'm not a fan of the Hornady SST muzzleloading bullet (Thompson "Shockwave") at all, if you are shooting the 250 SST or 300 SST, the HPH-12 is generally the choice but if it loads too tight the HPH-24 can solve your problems. What actually comes in the box with the bullets is speculative-- it could be MMP or not, it could be old polymer or not. Getting sabots from MMP is the only way I know to be sure of current product, unless getting fresh product from Barnes, Buffalo, or Hunterman.

There are no "HPH" sabots for .45 caliber muzzleloaders that I am aware of. Based on the sales numbers I'm aware of, the .45 caliber sabot-shooter is all but dead, so there will likely not be much future sabot development for these white elephants in the near future. As mentioned, though, all MMP sabots are the same latest formula excepting the unique 50 / 40 Blue.

To round out the HPH coverage, the 50 / 40 Blue has proved to be the best sabot of its type ever developed (great shooter for the 200 SST in several Knight Rifles), the 50 / 430 Green HPH-12 has a thicker, stronger base than the standard high performance 50 / 430 Green, and I am delighted that MMP currently offers the 50 / 458 Orange HPH sabots. That has opened up a whole new world, specifically all the 45-70 rifle bullets that you couldn't use before with current polypropylene blended product. Specifically, I've had great luck with the Barnes Original Semi-Spitzer 300 grain, and the Barnes "X" bullet 350 grain in these superb sabots.

So, I hope that covers the basics. If you send Connie at MMP some chocolate, that helps brighten her day. And, if I got anything wrong here, Mr. Ramsey will likely slap me, or make me take his mom out fishing. In any case, I hope it makes it a bit easier to order the sabots you need to let your gun shoot its best.








© July, 2005 by Randy Wakeman "

Didn't I post what bullets work best with your rifle when you announced your Omega purchase? I think I mentioned what plastic sabots too & where to get all this stuff.

Omegas have tight bores. You will need a 2nd ramrod with a screw-in handle on the end for easier loading too. Forgot to mention that last time.
Sorry!

I have tested both the Harvester plastic sabots & the MMP HPH-24's described above. While the HPH's appear to be the thinnest, they have a substance on their outer walls that still make them tougher to load than the ribbed Havesters - even the regular Harvesters.

These are my findings in my Omega. Yours & anyone elses may be different. The only MMP's I find favorable to Harvesters are the green 44/50s. Again.... what works for me in three different sabot guns using the green MMPsmay not work for you.

Hey Mike,

I am using a 370 grain bullet (T/C) for my elk hunt (leave tomorrow!!). That should work fine. Have you shot any of the conicals out of that rifle yet? I would imagine some of the heavier (370-460 grains) would work fine and lay an elk flat!! Just a thought.

BTW - Didn't your son get an elk tag too? What season was that for?

Mike - there is nothing wrong with the Powerbelts for elk. Here in Colorado, where sabots are not allowing during the designated blackpowder season, all the big sporting goods stores say that Powerbelts are the most popular bullet. Most folks are using the 348 gr. Aerotip - and a lot of hunters swear by the 405 gr. HP.

I have three T/C rifles. All of them are hard to load with the Hornady SST and the Barnes X. Firm but not bad with the T/C Shockwave. I have some of the new Harvester Crush Rib sabots, and intend to try them in the near future with the 250 gr. Barnes X, which is still the best elk bullet out there IMO.