Traditional Firearms
09-14-2005, 01:21 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Midvale, Id USA
Posts: 406
RE: Traditional Firearms
I've seen that site before.
I'm trying to stay in the late 18th/ early 19th century era. Here is a couple sites I like:
http://www.northstarwest.com/index.html
http://www.possibleshop.com/
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/
I'm trying to stay in the late 18th/ early 19th century era. Here is a couple sites I like:
http://www.northstarwest.com/index.html
http://www.possibleshop.com/
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/
09-15-2005, 07:45 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Midvale, Id USA
Posts: 406
RE: Traditional Firearms
Here is a little info from a freind of mine, Charlie Starks, about full and half stocks relative to traditional muzzleloader history. He is on the board of trustees for the TraditionalMuzzleloader Association http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/
He knows his history and is also a great part time gun builder & gunsmith.
"well both have been around along time so to narrow it down some we
must ask where , what country we are talking about . german and dutch
makers made some very fine half stock rifles and fowlers as did the
french i believe.
here in the Americas thought Its my understanding that the half
stock or plain rifles didn't real become to prominent until about
the time of European involvement onto the plains .
Before them full stock was the order of the day . Sure you will
find original trade guns that are half stock however I believe this
was from damage being done to the forstock and thus the stock
shortened .
With everything else though even all full stock rifles are not the
same . Commonly English rifles as well as some American made ones
can be found with heavy fronts while those with French and German
influence are normally very light on wood in the front . This also
changes with grade within the same rifle line so its not a stead
fast rule
There still is a lot of discussion of why the difference in weight
and length to the shorter and heavier weapons of the plains . Many
think this was due to the use of the horse . While others lean to
the greater knowledge of ballistics and how weapons work thus
making the transition a natural evolution of the weapon
What we do know when it comes to the plains style rifles that the
most popular know of them , the hawken
While probably sought after ,was most likely not very prevalent
during the fur trade . There has been a lot of information put out
about the hawken bros here recently and the common consensus seems
to be that the hawken rifle " or what we know as the hawken"didn't
come to prevalence until about 1842-43 and even then the bros were
only putting out close to 100 weapons a year while other makers like
Larson and Wilkins were putting out close to 500.
One thing is we are living in interesting times right now , lots of
people digging into history now so a lot of new info is coming to
light . What was common knowledge yesterday is not being debunked
today"
He knows his history and is also a great part time gun builder & gunsmith.
"well both have been around along time so to narrow it down some we
must ask where , what country we are talking about . german and dutch
makers made some very fine half stock rifles and fowlers as did the
french i believe.
here in the Americas thought Its my understanding that the half
stock or plain rifles didn't real become to prominent until about
the time of European involvement onto the plains .
Before them full stock was the order of the day . Sure you will
find original trade guns that are half stock however I believe this
was from damage being done to the forstock and thus the stock
shortened .
With everything else though even all full stock rifles are not the
same . Commonly English rifles as well as some American made ones
can be found with heavy fronts while those with French and German
influence are normally very light on wood in the front . This also
changes with grade within the same rifle line so its not a stead
fast rule
There still is a lot of discussion of why the difference in weight
and length to the shorter and heavier weapons of the plains . Many
think this was due to the use of the horse . While others lean to
the greater knowledge of ballistics and how weapons work thus
making the transition a natural evolution of the weapon
What we do know when it comes to the plains style rifles that the
most popular know of them , the hawken
While probably sought after ,was most likely not very prevalent
during the fur trade . There has been a lot of information put out
about the hawken bros here recently and the common consensus seems
to be that the hawken rifle " or what we know as the hawken"didn't
come to prevalence until about 1842-43 and even then the bros were
only putting out close to 100 weapons a year while other makers like
Larson and Wilkins were putting out close to 500.
One thing is we are living in interesting times right now , lots of
people digging into history now so a lot of new info is coming to
light . What was common knowledge yesterday is not being debunked
today"
09-15-2005, 03:53 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: pineview GF. USA
Posts: 374
RE: Traditional Firearms
Just got into flintlocks last spring and built this .62cal. Virginia smoothbore for spring gobbler hunting 
and just this month finish this .54cal. Bucks County Rifle for deer and hog this year. 
and just this month finish this .54cal. Bucks County Rifle for deer and hog this year.
09-16-2005, 01:09 PM
#15
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 96
RE: Traditional Firearms
Where I live there's no primitive season, only a general ml season.
I've gone to five different gunshops here in lower Quebec and only one place carries a flintlock. Dumbest thing I ever saw!!! A flint lock with a synthetic stock! It was a Lyman. I can't beleive they put their name on that! It's a real shame there's no market for them in my area. I love bp
and all I find is modern stuff. Even that's hard to come by. Only two shops carry bp and everything's always coverd in dust! And there's almost no selection of anything. I miss the states... last time in Maine,
I went to a shop that makes magazine hill in Nove scotia look like an ant farm!
I've gone to five different gunshops here in lower Quebec and only one place carries a flintlock. Dumbest thing I ever saw!!! A flint lock with a synthetic stock! It was a Lyman. I can't beleive they put their name on that! It's a real shame there's no market for them in my area. I love bp
and all I find is modern stuff. Even that's hard to come by. Only two shops carry bp and everything's always coverd in dust! And there's almost no selection of anything. I miss the states... last time in Maine,
I went to a shop that makes magazine hill in Nove scotia look like an ant farm!
09-16-2005, 01:45 PM
#16
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: S Texas
Posts: 1,037
RE: Traditional Firearms
I prefer traditional muzzle loaders,and do not own or shoot any of the 30 gajillion "modern muzzleloaders" on the market now. If I am going to shot modern rifles, it will be with a cartridge gun, thank you very much!
That said,I havefour flinters and a percussion rifle. The percussion rifle is an almost thirty year old T/C Hawken. Yeah, it looks about as much like a Hawken as my F150 looks like a Corvette, but it is good, servicable traditional rifle. My flinters are an older Dixie Tennesee Mountain Rifle in .32, a TOTW parts gun I built as a southern style mountain rifle in .45, and a Jim Chambers 20 bore Pennsylvania Fowler. Last is an Italian "M1803 Harper's Ferry" copy in .54. As close to a real M1803 as the T/C is to a Hawken, but I've reworked it into a decent shooter. Hardened the frizzen, polished and rehardened the sear and tumbler. It will work until I can build a better M1803 from TOTW parts.
That said,I havefour flinters and a percussion rifle. The percussion rifle is an almost thirty year old T/C Hawken. Yeah, it looks about as much like a Hawken as my F150 looks like a Corvette, but it is good, servicable traditional rifle. My flinters are an older Dixie Tennesee Mountain Rifle in .32, a TOTW parts gun I built as a southern style mountain rifle in .45, and a Jim Chambers 20 bore Pennsylvania Fowler. Last is an Italian "M1803 Harper's Ferry" copy in .54. As close to a real M1803 as the T/C is to a Hawken, but I've reworked it into a decent shooter. Hardened the frizzen, polished and rehardened the sear and tumbler. It will work until I can build a better M1803 from TOTW parts.
09-18-2005, 07:40 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Midvale, Id USA
Posts: 406
RE: Traditional Firearms
Grapeshot: I can understand how you can't find many "primitive guns" up your way if your regs don't call for a traditional gun. For many hunters they want to go with the most reliable and accurate equipment out there, and those modern inlines deliver reliability (sealed breach so the powder won't get wet) and accuracy out to 200 yard.
Comparitably, there is only a handfull of us "traditionalists" that like the added challenge of a primitive weapon. It's more of a personal thing to know you just harvested an animal with an ol' smoke pole.
We have traditional hunts here in Idaho that call forthe rifle to beopen breach loaded withblack powder or pyrodex and apatched round ball. That synthetic Lyman flinter would actually qualify for that hunt, but I think it would be better suited as a boat anchor.
Even with that, the market is pretty week as far as finding traditional weapons on the shelves. We had a great gun shop here that stocked a lot of good traditional guns and accessories, but the owner died and his widow shut the place down. A freind of mine (and primitive gun builder/shooter) and I were talking. I suggested he start up a shop. He said that there just isn't the market for it, especially when everyone seems to want to get the modern guns. Plus he said it is even harder to compete with the internet shops, where a guy can get just about any type traditional gun made if he looks hard enough.
Comparitably, there is only a handfull of us "traditionalists" that like the added challenge of a primitive weapon. It's more of a personal thing to know you just harvested an animal with an ol' smoke pole.
We have traditional hunts here in Idaho that call forthe rifle to beopen breach loaded withblack powder or pyrodex and apatched round ball. That synthetic Lyman flinter would actually qualify for that hunt, but I think it would be better suited as a boat anchor.
Even with that, the market is pretty week as far as finding traditional weapons on the shelves. We had a great gun shop here that stocked a lot of good traditional guns and accessories, but the owner died and his widow shut the place down. A freind of mine (and primitive gun builder/shooter) and I were talking. I suggested he start up a shop. He said that there just isn't the market for it, especially when everyone seems to want to get the modern guns. Plus he said it is even harder to compete with the internet shops, where a guy can get just about any type traditional gun made if he looks hard enough.
