So you can't agree to disagree. Yes, I shoot an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpress that has a Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20 scope on it. I shoot 200 gr Pyrodex pellets and 300 gr Hornady SST bullets and have grouped myself under 1" at 100 and under 1 1/2" at 200 (the range I use is only 200 yards). EVERY TIME Ultimate Firearms is mentioned on ANY forum someone wants to start fight and this time it is you. Well, I like my gun, and itperforms EXACTLY as the factory described. To be honest, the way I hunt the Ultimate gun is overkill. I have a Knight Extreme that actually gives me all I needin a BPgun. Basically, I can do with my Ultimate gun and Pyrodex what you are doing with your Savage and smokeless.To each his own, shoot it and enjoy.

As a smokeless muzzleloading user, what have I said about smokeless that is baseless, false or misleading about the use of smokeless powder? Other than that I feel it is over the edge in a primitive season, I have said nothing about smokeless. You are the one trying to fuel this fight.

I clearly already established in my first post that the following statement is baseless....YOUAGREED.....stating thatyour statement wasonly "your opinion."

My point is further supported by the fact that Smokeless powder ACTUALLY PREDATES PYRODEX BY ALMOST A CENTURY!


Concerning...
You clearly have some deep seated issues here. As a result of a post comparing ballistics between two similar guns, you would now like to use the word "fight" to describe simple comparisons of facts.

I believe this is the second time that you use the word "fight" in less than two paragraphs. I am still unclear why you feel threatened...?

I will repeat my previous post..
I made it clear in my first post that I believe that hunters who treat this as a divisive issue are doing the muzzleloading community as a whole a great diservice.

I believe this board supports the honest dissemination of information, and the common goals of hunter freedoms and access. Any posts that seem to run contrary to those goals should be questioned in an understanding manner.

Finally.... back to the subject at hand now.....

I recently saw this posted on another Muzzleloading board...

"The regs are about to change in Mississippi, allowing single-shot breechloaders (.38 cal. min) such as a .38-55, .45-70, .45-90 Sharps and high wall rifles loaded with smokeless cartridges to be used right alongside muzzleloaders in their "primitive" season. There has been a run on H & R Handi-Rifles as a result.

Yet, smokeless powder is NOT specifically legal in muzzleloaders.

If you are a smokeless muzzleloading shooter and care to support Mississippi with your tourism and hunting dollars, or care to support smokeless muzzleloading in general-- a FAX to 601-432-2187 would be helpful.

http://www.mdwfp.com/Level1/Intents.asp

You can also write if you wish; if you click on "Primitive Weapons" at the above url, you can read the specifics and get the proper address."


Regardless, of any personal feelings on the issue it is good to see shooters becoming more active in the polical/legislative processes as a result of membership on hunting boards like this one and many others...JC

jcchartboy

I sure wish you would just shoot your smokeless pole and let this go. You are not making any points with me for your smokeless case, as a matter of fact, my prejudiceshave deepened thanks to you.

What's the beef then?
I'm not a smokeless fan...but with that rifle...you've no room to talk...Regardless of..."that's my opinion".

Thanks Quigley,

As everyone else here has already realized I was never out to "score points", with anyone. In particular, certainly not a man who admittedly holds "prejudice" over an entire group of felllow muzzleloaders based on what propellent they use!

There is only twocorrect ways to adress any subject. Not at all, or based on fact and reason. If Retrieverman didn't want to to discuss the issue HE HIMSELF should never had brought it up in the first place.


Once Again Trying to get back to the original subject....

Here is an exmple of what will now be considered a primitive weapon in Missisippi..

JCC, is that rifle a front loader? This is from the Mississippi Hunting Manual.

PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
Primitive weapons for deer hunting are defined as longbows, recurves or compound bows, single or double-barreled muzzleloading rifles of at least .38 caliber, or single or double-barred muzzleloading shotguns loaded with a single ball or slug. All muzzleloading primitive firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or flintlocks. A “black powder substitute” is defined as a substance designed, manufactured and intended to be used as a propellant in muzzleloading or other black powder firearms, excluding modern smokeless powder.

Your right Rebel...that WAS from the manual. Go back and read the post for all the info. Here is part of what itWILL read.....

Got to this page... http://www.mdwfp.com/Level1/Intents.asp then click "primitive weapons" for the actual legislation.

Jcc, all I read was: NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULE ADOPTION.
Nothing for the 2004-2005hunting season