modern muzzel loading
08-25-2005 | 08:30 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,785
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From:
RE: modern muzzel loading
ORIGINAL: RedAllison
It has nothing to do with "buckskinners" or doing it the hard way or anyother "primitive" methods. The reasons are to encourage more harvests. MS (and most anyother southern state) is about 15 years behind the curve with respect too proper harvests and eliminating over-abundant animals. This is why they are encouraging use of such weapons. I quit hunting north MS about 10 years ago because of the poor health of the herd (simply to many animals) and despite our best mgmt techniques we just couldn't produce animals much over 130". (That and the redneck poachers are RAMPANT in this state!)
For most of the 80s and throughout the first half of the 90s the state was to strict in antlerless harvests and now they are panicking because the herd has gotten out of control. The densities per square mile are higher than anyother single state in the U.S. Even having the greatest deer biologist within their own boundaries (Dr. Jacobs at MS State Univ.) wasn't enough for those thickheads. They wanted deer!
Well by God they got em now!!!
RA
It has nothing to do with "buckskinners" or doing it the hard way or anyother "primitive" methods. The reasons are to encourage more harvests. MS (and most anyother southern state) is about 15 years behind the curve with respect too proper harvests and eliminating over-abundant animals. This is why they are encouraging use of such weapons. I quit hunting north MS about 10 years ago because of the poor health of the herd (simply to many animals) and despite our best mgmt techniques we just couldn't produce animals much over 130". (That and the redneck poachers are RAMPANT in this state!)
For most of the 80s and throughout the first half of the 90s the state was to strict in antlerless harvests and now they are panicking because the herd has gotten out of control. The densities per square mile are higher than anyother single state in the U.S. Even having the greatest deer biologist within their own boundaries (Dr. Jacobs at MS State Univ.) wasn't enough for those thickheads. They wanted deer!
Well by God they got em now!!!
RA
In my opinion, there has got to be another way to encourage deer harvest than corrupting a "special" season.
08-25-2005 | 08:07 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,233
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From:
RE: modern muzzel loading
ORIGINAL: retrieverman
I amNOT a traditionalist andshoot a Knight Disc rifle and an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpresswhich Ifeelare pushing the envelope in a primitive season, but a 45/70 and Savage smokeless is WAY over the edge in my opinion. That kind of takes the "primitive" out of it. It may be time toback up and regroup when it comes to a "primitive" season.
I amNOT a traditionalist andshoot a Knight Disc rifle and an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpresswhich Ifeelare pushing the envelope in a primitive season, but a 45/70 and Savage smokeless is WAY over the edge in my opinion. That kind of takes the "primitive" out of it. It may be time toback up and regroup when it comes to a "primitive" season.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc., makers of the BP Xpress, the ultimate muzzleloader, take muzzleloading to the next level. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 5, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (250 grains!), and an easy, 2 minute cleanup, this is truly a scientifically engineered, long range muzzleloader.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc., makers of the BP Xpress, the ultimate muzzleloader, take muzzleloading to the next level. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 5, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (250 grains!), and an easy, 2 minute cleanup, this is truly a scientifically engineered, long range muzzleloader.
Dan PawlakinventedProdex and hispatent application was filed on July 25, 1975.
In 1886 Paul Vieille invented smokeless gunpowder. Made from gelatinized nitrocellulose mixed with ether and alcohol, it was passed through rollers to form thin sheets, which were cut with a guillotine to flakes of the desired size.
08-25-2005 | 10:53 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,785
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From:
RE: modern muzzel loading
ORIGINAL: jcchartboy
How is the shooting the "Ultimate" more primive than the Savage w/smokeless?
PYRODEX........invented 1975
SMOKELESS POWDER.......invented 1886
ORIGINAL: retrieverman
I amNOT a traditionalist andshoot a Knight Disc rifle and an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpresswhich Ifeelare pushing the envelope in a primitive season, but a 45/70 and Savage smokeless is WAY over the edge in my opinion. That kind of takes the "primitive" out of it. It may be time toback up and regroup when it comes to a "primitive" season.
I amNOT a traditionalist andshoot a Knight Disc rifle and an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpresswhich Ifeelare pushing the envelope in a primitive season, but a 45/70 and Savage smokeless is WAY over the edge in my opinion. That kind of takes the "primitive" out of it. It may be time toback up and regroup when it comes to a "primitive" season.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc., makers of the BP Xpress, the ultimate muzzleloader, take muzzleloading to the next level. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 5, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (250 grains!), and an easy, 2 minute cleanup, this is truly a scientifically engineered, long range muzzleloader.
Ultimate Firearms, Inc., makers of the BP Xpress, the ultimate muzzleloader, take muzzleloading to the next level. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 5, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (250 grains!), and an easy, 2 minute cleanup, this is truly a scientifically engineered, long range muzzleloader.
Dan PawlakinventedProdex and hispatent application was filed on July 25, 1975.
In 1886 Paul Vieille invented smokeless gunpowder. Made from gelatinized nitrocellulose mixed with ether and alcohol, it was passed through rollers to form thin sheets, which were cut with a guillotine to flakes of the desired size.
I bet you are a Savage smokeless shooter. Did you read my whole post that you are turning back on me? I only stated my OPINION. Thanks for the history lesson.
08-26-2005 | 04:59 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,233
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From:
RE: modern muzzel loading
jcchartboy,
I bet you are a Savage smokeless shooter. Did you read my whole post that you are turning back on me? I only stated my OPINION. Thanks for the history lesson.
I bet you are a Savage smokeless shooter. Did you read my whole post that you are turning back on me? I only stated my OPINION. Thanks for the history lesson.
Yes, I read your entire statement.
No, Iam notturning anything back on you. I simply wanted to know what was the basis of your opinion. I felt it was not grounded in fact, or possibly it was based on misinformation. (I would still like to hear it).
I just don't understand why some people attempt to turn the "smokeless" issue into another divisive point amongst hunters.
It is called "Muzzleloader" season in most states for a reason. If it were blackpowder season then obviously smokeless would not belong. Of course then none of the black powder substitutes would either.
As far as a primitive season goes it should be straight forward.... The state should pick a designateddate in time, any hunting implements which were created/invented beforesaid timeshould then be considered a legalfirearm for the taking of game.
There is absolutely no historical reason,(at least that I can see, please inform me if I am missing something), that BP alternatives should be allowed in a primitive season while smokelesswould not.
Primitive Season should either be historically correct, or not.
Muzzleloader owners should fight together for common goals. Not with each other over which propelent is being used.
08-26-2005 | 06:43 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,785
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From:
RE: modern muzzel loading
jcchartboy
Once again, I stated my OPINION and stand by it. If I want to shoot smokeless, I will pull out my 300 WSM. I have been prejudiced by the attitudes of someof your Savage shooting brothers on other forums, so we might as well agree to disagree becauseno one is changing my mind on this one.
Once again, I stated my OPINION and stand by it. If I want to shoot smokeless, I will pull out my 300 WSM. I have been prejudiced by the attitudes of someof your Savage shooting brothers on other forums, so we might as well agree to disagree becauseno one is changing my mind on this one.
08-26-2005 | 07:42 AM
#18
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: modern muzzel loading
It sounds like the State of Mississippi has a real deer herd population problem. Speaking from the State of Wisconsin that had a similar deer herd population problem, Mississippi is looking for ways to lower the population and do it real fast. I am sure that is the reason for the introduction of a 45/70 government being allowed into their primitive season.
What were the requirement of the primitive season before these new decisions were made? I mean, what was and was not allowed? I think what is sticking in the minds of some of us forum members is the word primitive. When many of us think primitive, we think in terms of the flintlocks, and early model sidelock percussion caps. It is apparent that Mississippi on the other had has a different idea of how the term primitive is used. And that's fine as long as that deer herd is reduced. The State will regulate their deer herd and hunting requirements in any way they see fit.
Wisconsin as many people know suffered a severe outbreak of Chronic Waste Disease a.k.a. CWD. The disease has been spreading to different parts of the State and increasing in size the number of counties effect every year. If you have ever seen a deer with the suspected disease, it is not a pretty sight. Our StateDepartment of Natural Resourceshas tried to blame this outbreak on everything from people importing out of State animals to some Sports Hunting Ranches for herd improvement, to large numbers of deer populations that live and interact in close proximity, to about anything else they can think of. I think Mississippi is trying to nip their herd population problem in the bud before it really is, a problem. It also sounds like they are basing the requirements of the weapons being allowed during this hunt on the velocity of the rifles and the number of rounds they can fire. I am not sure on this point.
As for the direction of the thread turning to Smokeless rifles and other such rifles, I think it is getting off line of the reason for the thread.I see no benefit of rehashing something that people have an opinion on and refuse to change their mind. It benefits no one and only causes hard feelings in some cases on the forum... use what you like. I am not competing with anyone out there. Just my two cents.
What were the requirement of the primitive season before these new decisions were made? I mean, what was and was not allowed? I think what is sticking in the minds of some of us forum members is the word primitive. When many of us think primitive, we think in terms of the flintlocks, and early model sidelock percussion caps. It is apparent that Mississippi on the other had has a different idea of how the term primitive is used. And that's fine as long as that deer herd is reduced. The State will regulate their deer herd and hunting requirements in any way they see fit.
Wisconsin as many people know suffered a severe outbreak of Chronic Waste Disease a.k.a. CWD. The disease has been spreading to different parts of the State and increasing in size the number of counties effect every year. If you have ever seen a deer with the suspected disease, it is not a pretty sight. Our StateDepartment of Natural Resourceshas tried to blame this outbreak on everything from people importing out of State animals to some Sports Hunting Ranches for herd improvement, to large numbers of deer populations that live and interact in close proximity, to about anything else they can think of. I think Mississippi is trying to nip their herd population problem in the bud before it really is, a problem. It also sounds like they are basing the requirements of the weapons being allowed during this hunt on the velocity of the rifles and the number of rounds they can fire. I am not sure on this point.
As for the direction of the thread turning to Smokeless rifles and other such rifles, I think it is getting off line of the reason for the thread.I see no benefit of rehashing something that people have an opinion on and refuse to change their mind. It benefits no one and only causes hard feelings in some cases on the forum... use what you like. I am not competing with anyone out there. Just my two cents.
08-26-2005 | 08:08 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: modern muzzel loading
ORIGINAL: retrieverman
jcchartboy
Once again, I stated my OPINION and stand by it. If I want to shoot smokeless, I will pull out my 300 WSM. I have been prejudiced by the attitudes of someof your Savage shooting brothers on other forums, so we might as well agree to disagree becauseno one is changing my mind on this one.
jcchartboy
Once again, I stated my OPINION and stand by it. If I want to shoot smokeless, I will pull out my 300 WSM. I have been prejudiced by the attitudes of someof your Savage shooting brothers on other forums, so we might as well agree to disagree becauseno one is changing my mind on this one.
08-26-2005 | 08:20 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,270
Likes: 0
From: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
RE: modern muzzel loading
So I CAN hunt with my Browning High Wall .45/70, but NOT with my Ruger No. 1? Both using ammo from the same box??
Bloody ridiculous!!
I see that the inmates are still running the asylum!!
Bloody ridiculous!!
I see that the inmates are still running the asylum!!