Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
06-19-2004, 01:35 AM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
Only problem I have with this method is all of the good burger and sausage meat left sitting there for the coyotes to dine on. Baby back elk ribs are better cooking on the grill instead of being left on the ground.
Why not take the ribs after you get all of the other meat off?
Why not take the ribs after you get all of the other meat off?
06-19-2004, 09:05 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
bigbulls,
Especially if one is deboning for the pack out job, then yes the rib meat is all right there for the taking before you flip them over to do the other side.
If one is interested in the whole gambit of: cuts with the ribs still in the meat, and/or the heart, liver, etc., then I would recommend the standard field dressing method. In that case, perhaps the "can opener device" ["new field dressing tool" thread] would be a good pound or two extra to carry [or in our case, let the horse carry it].
Personally, we've "played around" with the rib meat thing and net, net bottom line for us it is a big "no thanks". We kinda feel the state of Colorado had it about right in what they put into the regulations as to what cuts you had to harvest and which you could leave.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
Why not take the ribs after you get all of the other meat off?
If one is interested in the whole gambit of: cuts with the ribs still in the meat, and/or the heart, liver, etc., then I would recommend the standard field dressing method. In that case, perhaps the "can opener device" ["new field dressing tool" thread] would be a good pound or two extra to carry [or in our case, let the horse carry it].
Personally, we've "played around" with the rib meat thing and net, net bottom line for us it is a big "no thanks". We kinda feel the state of Colorado had it about right in what they put into the regulations as to what cuts you had to harvest and which you could leave.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
06-19-2004, 09:32 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
A couple of questions here. I have not hunted elk as of yet, but my family has previously only used the traditional gutting meathod for deer, elk and antelope. I only have a deer tag this year, but was wondering how well this would work for mule deer from around 150 to around 225 pounds or so (about the sizes of deer I have shot). We usually don't mess with rib meat on deer, except for hamburger (sometimes, just depends on how big the deer is and how much fat is included with the rib meat), and I don't think that would be a problem with this method, as it looks like it would be fairly easy to trim the ribs as well as the neck. Only questions I have would be how to get the liver and heart and the inside tenderloins out? The liver and heart aren't as important, but would like to save them because my uncle likes them for some odd reason, but the tenderloins are a must. The space on a deer would be a lot smaller than on an elk, and I don't think it would be very easy to get the tenderloins out between the ribs. Would it be possible to get these from the throat without having to mess with the gut area? Or would it just be easier with a smaller animal to do a deer the "traditional" way. The only reason I would do this method would be for putting on a pack frame if I were more than a mile or so away from the road, which would also involve deboning the quarters to make the pack lighter.
06-20-2004, 01:42 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
Charlie,
It will work for deer and certainly that could be good practice for an elk, but it is going to be more inconvenient because usually with a deer you can just gut it, grab it by the antlers and drag it out. Doing the Alaskan method on a deer is going to leave you with 4 quarters, 2 backstraps, and 2 tenderloins --- so unless you debone and pack it out anyway, then you will probably consider it to be a hassle for a deer (except for eductional value).
Liver and heart? If you want these items, then use the traditional method.
The tenderloins are under the spine in the body cavity and are located well to the rear of the critter and the ribs do not bar access to this area. These are accessible via the Alakan method and before we did it the first time it was one of my major concerns. A cross section of the spine creates a + and if the critter is standing up, then the backstraps lay in the top two "corners". The tenderloins are in the bottom two "corners." Of course when the critter is dead and laying on its side this picture is rotated by 90 degrees. Sooooo, the critter is down, and laying on its side, and you've cut the hide down the back and skinned the hide downward and have a big flap of hide laid down towards/over the belly, first, you’ll cut out the front and rear quarter on that side, and then the backstrap on that side (it was laying in the corner “trough” of the + cross section of the backbone). Regarding the tenderloin, again with the critter laying on its side, you will find the tenderloin “trapped” under the spine (in the lower corner trough of the +) and above the “gut body cavity” in fact the “gut compartment” will be laying right against the tenderloins sandwiching them against the spine. Skinning the hide off of this area is not enough. Behind the ribs and ahead of the pelvis you will need to gently slice (don’t poke) through the layer that lies under the hide but not cut/slice clear through down into the gut pile, just open it up enough to see the tenderloins.
Extraction. We use a little “baby folder knife” with about a 1.5” blade. A small and narrow bladed knife is your friend here as the space is tight, the bone features to follow are many, AND your fingers are going to be right in there. Make the first cut vertically along the vertical side of the “bone trough” created by the spine (remember the + cross section?) and the tenderloin, this one is easy and “safe” --- just meat and bone. This first cut will loosen one side of it. Now comes the tough part, the risky part for your fingers, and the good place for the little, little knife --- push the “gut bag” away from the remaining side of the tenderloin to get yourself a little bit of room and go in cut under the tenderloin and “fillet” the tenderloin (we start at the back end) off of what was once the “roof” of the body cavity (when the critter was standing up). Getting the initial cut establishing one “end” of your tenderloin piece of meat and getting enough of it filleted off to allow you a piece of the tenderloin to get ahold of so you can pull on it as you cut it is the “hard part” so don’t give up --- think “surgeon” not “butcher” at this point. The rest is just going slow and careful. Some folks at this point say the just grab them and "tear" them out. This may be possible, but it is a little like taking a cracked fingernail and just pulling on it instead of cutting it --- it don't always tear where it is supposed to --- so keep cutting, don't try to "yank" them out. Be careful of your fingers and careful of the gut bag as it is always right there and just inviting you to cut it.
I’m always amazed on these butchering deals that the tough spots (like the tenderloins) is always left out of the discussion. Another place where no one I’ve seen get real specific on the “how to do it” is how cut out over to and locate the hip socket without “butchering” the hind quarter. But that is another story… hope this stuff makes sense, I can "see" it clear as day, but there is nothing like doing it or helping do it to have it down pat.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
It will work for deer and certainly that could be good practice for an elk, but it is going to be more inconvenient because usually with a deer you can just gut it, grab it by the antlers and drag it out. Doing the Alaskan method on a deer is going to leave you with 4 quarters, 2 backstraps, and 2 tenderloins --- so unless you debone and pack it out anyway, then you will probably consider it to be a hassle for a deer (except for eductional value).
Liver and heart? If you want these items, then use the traditional method.
The tenderloins are under the spine in the body cavity and are located well to the rear of the critter and the ribs do not bar access to this area. These are accessible via the Alakan method and before we did it the first time it was one of my major concerns. A cross section of the spine creates a + and if the critter is standing up, then the backstraps lay in the top two "corners". The tenderloins are in the bottom two "corners." Of course when the critter is dead and laying on its side this picture is rotated by 90 degrees. Sooooo, the critter is down, and laying on its side, and you've cut the hide down the back and skinned the hide downward and have a big flap of hide laid down towards/over the belly, first, you’ll cut out the front and rear quarter on that side, and then the backstrap on that side (it was laying in the corner “trough” of the + cross section of the backbone). Regarding the tenderloin, again with the critter laying on its side, you will find the tenderloin “trapped” under the spine (in the lower corner trough of the +) and above the “gut body cavity” in fact the “gut compartment” will be laying right against the tenderloins sandwiching them against the spine. Skinning the hide off of this area is not enough. Behind the ribs and ahead of the pelvis you will need to gently slice (don’t poke) through the layer that lies under the hide but not cut/slice clear through down into the gut pile, just open it up enough to see the tenderloins.
Extraction. We use a little “baby folder knife” with about a 1.5” blade. A small and narrow bladed knife is your friend here as the space is tight, the bone features to follow are many, AND your fingers are going to be right in there. Make the first cut vertically along the vertical side of the “bone trough” created by the spine (remember the + cross section?) and the tenderloin, this one is easy and “safe” --- just meat and bone. This first cut will loosen one side of it. Now comes the tough part, the risky part for your fingers, and the good place for the little, little knife --- push the “gut bag” away from the remaining side of the tenderloin to get yourself a little bit of room and go in cut under the tenderloin and “fillet” the tenderloin (we start at the back end) off of what was once the “roof” of the body cavity (when the critter was standing up). Getting the initial cut establishing one “end” of your tenderloin piece of meat and getting enough of it filleted off to allow you a piece of the tenderloin to get ahold of so you can pull on it as you cut it is the “hard part” so don’t give up --- think “surgeon” not “butcher” at this point. The rest is just going slow and careful. Some folks at this point say the just grab them and "tear" them out. This may be possible, but it is a little like taking a cracked fingernail and just pulling on it instead of cutting it --- it don't always tear where it is supposed to --- so keep cutting, don't try to "yank" them out. Be careful of your fingers and careful of the gut bag as it is always right there and just inviting you to cut it.
I’m always amazed on these butchering deals that the tough spots (like the tenderloins) is always left out of the discussion. Another place where no one I’ve seen get real specific on the “how to do it” is how cut out over to and locate the hip socket without “butchering” the hind quarter. But that is another story… hope this stuff makes sense, I can "see" it clear as day, but there is nothing like doing it or helping do it to have it down pat.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
06-20-2004, 01:57 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
Elkampmaster-- Thanks for the info. Pretty detailed, I may have to print it out and read it a little more carefully next to a diagram of the skeletal and mussle structures of deer and elk. Actually, the "Another place where no one I’ve seen is real specific on the “how to do it” is how cut out over to and locate the hip socket without “butchering” the hind quarter." Was another question that I had after I posted my last question, as I went back to the site, and watched the slide show again. Then the question kinda popped into my head of exactly how to locate the hip socket without butchering the animal and destroying as little meat as possible. It would be cool if you could elaborate on that, again thanks for the previous response to my question.
P.S.-- yes this would be more of an educational value for (hopefully) elk hunting next year, as I have 2 bonus points for cow elk now, and the area that I apply for has a large wilderness area that holds a lot of elk and does not get very much hunting pressure, so I could get back away from the other hunters if rifle hunting, but if I draw a ML tag, not much to worry about with only 4 tags in the ML hunt.
P.S.-- yes this would be more of an educational value for (hopefully) elk hunting next year, as I have 2 bonus points for cow elk now, and the area that I apply for has a large wilderness area that holds a lot of elk and does not get very much hunting pressure, so I could get back away from the other hunters if rifle hunting, but if I draw a ML tag, not much to worry about with only 4 tags in the ML hunt.
06-20-2004, 06:52 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
Charlie,
If you look at the picture of the cow, "before and after", you can see one of the "troughs" where we took out the back strap, it is a good 2 1/2 maybe 3 feet long (depends how far you go up into "neck" territory) and about 4"x3". This trough is bounded by bone on two sides. The tenderloin was immediately below this backstrap trough, but to the rear of the critter with the "wings of the vertabrae creating the separation between them (+).
Hindquarters. The back end of the critter is always where the dirty work lies BUT the good news is you can avoid almost of that [but if you have a bull you still don't want to (and don't have to) fool with the ureathia]. [Also don't forget how you are going to get evidence of sex (testacles or udder halves) to stay with those two rear quarters, not hard but you have to think about it before you go skinning up a storm.]
Now, just pretend you are doing the traditional method and are making the same cuts through the thin flesh to expose the pelvis so you can cut it with your saw or hatchet. Once you expose flat bone of the pelvis near the centerline (where you would normally cut it), turn your blade 90 degrees and start following (filleting) along the pelvis bone laterally to the "outside" and lift the hind quarter meat up enough out of the way with one hand so you can see what you are doing and keep cutting with the other. The distance you have to go is amazingly short (maybe 5-6" or less) on an elk and you'll come to the obvious ball joint which you will work your way through and then that hind quarter is just a few more slices away from "coming off". When it does it should immediately go into a game bag and getting hung in the shade of a tree right away to stay clean and cool (as should the other cuts as they "come off")*. BTW we skin all the hide off the quarter, down to just below the "knee", before cutting quarters off of the animal.
* If you are deboning then there is more work to do before putting it into game bags (assuming you are leaving with it right away). One fellow I know carries a 6' by 6' piece of plastic and 4 landscaping stakes. This is his deboning area and that is all that is done on that plastic is cut meat from bones --- no hide, no hair, no dirt, no nothing else. he holds the quarter vertically with the leg in his hand and the big end of the quarter on the plastic. About two or three slices and the meat is all off of the bone in big chunks. Then he bags it up in equal weight groups for packing into panniers (or onto your back).
With an elk (way back in) about the only way to handle them is to make "smaller parts" out of "big parts" --- the Alaskan method works great for that.
This part is better than shooting them, gourmet elk coming up!
EKM
If you look at the picture of the cow, "before and after", you can see one of the "troughs" where we took out the back strap, it is a good 2 1/2 maybe 3 feet long (depends how far you go up into "neck" territory) and about 4"x3". This trough is bounded by bone on two sides. The tenderloin was immediately below this backstrap trough, but to the rear of the critter with the "wings of the vertabrae creating the separation between them (+).
Hindquarters. The back end of the critter is always where the dirty work lies BUT the good news is you can avoid almost of that [but if you have a bull you still don't want to (and don't have to) fool with the ureathia]. [Also don't forget how you are going to get evidence of sex (testacles or udder halves) to stay with those two rear quarters, not hard but you have to think about it before you go skinning up a storm.]
Now, just pretend you are doing the traditional method and are making the same cuts through the thin flesh to expose the pelvis so you can cut it with your saw or hatchet. Once you expose flat bone of the pelvis near the centerline (where you would normally cut it), turn your blade 90 degrees and start following (filleting) along the pelvis bone laterally to the "outside" and lift the hind quarter meat up enough out of the way with one hand so you can see what you are doing and keep cutting with the other. The distance you have to go is amazingly short (maybe 5-6" or less) on an elk and you'll come to the obvious ball joint which you will work your way through and then that hind quarter is just a few more slices away from "coming off". When it does it should immediately go into a game bag and getting hung in the shade of a tree right away to stay clean and cool (as should the other cuts as they "come off")*. BTW we skin all the hide off the quarter, down to just below the "knee", before cutting quarters off of the animal.
* If you are deboning then there is more work to do before putting it into game bags (assuming you are leaving with it right away). One fellow I know carries a 6' by 6' piece of plastic and 4 landscaping stakes. This is his deboning area and that is all that is done on that plastic is cut meat from bones --- no hide, no hair, no dirt, no nothing else. he holds the quarter vertically with the leg in his hand and the big end of the quarter on the plastic. About two or three slices and the meat is all off of the bone in big chunks. Then he bags it up in equal weight groups for packing into panniers (or onto your back).
With an elk (way back in) about the only way to handle them is to make "smaller parts" out of "big parts" --- the Alaskan method works great for that.
This part is better than shooting them, gourmet elk coming up!
EKM
06-20-2004, 07:10 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: Field Dressing Using The " Alaskan" Method
Cool, thanks for putting the time into describing it. I guess I will give it a shot this fall if I get a deer, always like to learn something new because someone always has a better way than the way you do things. Thanks again EKM
