Nemont

I think an economics lesson would be in order, the value of hunters does not come close to the value of ranching in Western States.

Again these comments show you are pretty far removed from who calls the shots. Hunters don't have the same "rights" as those with grazing permits.

If you want to change something you need to go to the source of these rules and regulations. Start with the Taylor Grazing Act and work from there.

Nemont

WNYhunter

I remember see that my trip out there. It's how the ranchers play the game. Everyone knows they are trying to push game down to thier land but it is al legal for them to get thier sheep out of there.

And by the way, it upsets me but it is what it is and I have killed a bull 2 out of 3 times there.

skb2706

I guess that speaks volumes to me.

Consider the state wide average is less than 18% you have little to complain about.

jpron

If I come across as whinning your miss interperting the post. It is against the law to push elk from one area to another in order to benefit outfitters!! If you don't believe call and ask. All the grazing is is a cover up for breaking the law!! Graze where you want, it won't bother the elk, I know that, but when the herders are riding horses through the woods yelling with no livestock in sight, that I have an issue with. If you want to talk out of state hunters, look up buffalo county Wi. I live smack dab in the middle of nonresident hunter central. you comment on taxes and schools and roads. These guys around hear, come in, buy land for twice the value, enroll it in managed forest crop which drops taxes to roughly $2.00 an acre then run back to there big city and laugh when our taxes go up because there raising land values and paying only 10% of the taxes. I go to co.to get away from the bs. Hunting here is a business and it sucks. I want to be able to take my kids somewhere and enjoy nature and wildlife, unfortunatly i haven't found that yet. and from reading other posts and talking with other hunters I am not the only who feels the way I do.

Howler

Don't think for one minute that it's not happening out here as well, just a matter of economics. There are still areas that you can get away from it, but getting harder and harder to find those spots.

hillbillyhunter1

you make a good point jpron. Just like there are lawbreakers and jackarses everywhere, big landowners in the west are no different. Some of them are great people. Others pull, with regularity, just the type of shenanigans you describe. I know some that chase the elk with 4 wheelers when they get too close to the line fence, back toward the center of the property. You just have to live and learn.

Nemont

If the ranch hands are truly harassing wildlife then turn them in to the DOW. Maybe nothing happens but there needs to be some consquences.

If you think you are the only one affected by well financed NR hunters think again. Out here on the Prairie they come in and buy up huge places and then attempt to even block access to public lands. Places I hunted on as a kid are now locked up and only the NR gets access to those lands.

I cannot believe though that with the millions of acres of public lands you cannot find a place to hunt and recreate. I know I can still find solitude on public lands when I am hunting.


If "your" spot is messed up look for a different on. Grazing is not going to go away and if the Co. DOW allows game harassment neither is your situation.

Nemont

skb2706

As a resident here in CO I participate in the Ranching for Wildlife program. This allows a few public hunters access to private land hunting....generally for elk or deer. I can assure you that it is not necessary for a private land owner with any kind of acreage to corral big game to keep them on the property. Big game animals have enough sense to know where the pressure of hunting comes from and they will avoid it wherever it takes them. See the downtown streets of Estes Park during hunting season.

My elk hunting this year will be on 77,000 acres of private land with a total of 22 other hunters. It will cost me $50. Actually my son is going to so theres another $13.25. I can step over a few cow pies for that price.

jwill

I had a similar experience a couple years ago on a diy muzzleloader hunt for elk in CO. Spoke to a rancher that almost admitted as much, said his sports had all tagged out so it was time to bring the sheep home. Hiked in 5 or 6 miles into wilderness to find cattle and sheep and outfitters and very little game. We eventually found some ground to hunt and saw a few elk, I think it's worth talking to the USFS and inquiring about grazing leases before planning your hunt. Not complaining, but would have been nice to know going in. I would like to see the grazing end a week or so before the season, just to avoid the potential conflicts. I've been out for a 2nd rifle hunt, no problems at all then. It certainly didn't sour me on western hunting, hard to beat just being in the Rockies on a hunt, regardless of outcome.

Blackelk

Just remember one thing when it comes to grazing the forest with livestock. Most states cattlemen and sheep associations pre date the forest service by about 50years. They were a major factor in maintaining trails and the structure of the national forest before it ever existed. Besides miners and loggers they were the fore fathers of the national forest. Most hired out as outfitters in the fall to clients coming from the east even almost as early as western expansion started to take full swing around the 1890's.

As far as sheep and elk. Elk do not like sheep, sheep dogs, or sheep herders that blast away at coyotes when ever they see them. I would have moved at least a few miles away from the sheep and set up a new camp. When the sheep are still in my area in early September I don't bother hunting around that area. Elk and cattle will interact just fine but not elk and sheep. It's really too bad you hit an area that still had sheep in it. Better luck next time.

Driving elk in bow season? In most places in Colorado elk still act like wild mustangs going where ever the wind blows them. Trying to drive elk into area's or to hunters especially in bow range is beyond insane and near impossible and does not make much sense. That outfitter or rancher is a bit simple minded or the story a bit stretched. All your going to do is drive the elk completely out of your area for a week or so.

Good luck and like said before maybe contacting the forest service to see where the sheep are at would be a good thing before planning a trip. But then again they might not know.