I agree, hunting with an outfitter is more expensive than alot of us can afford, myself included. It's a shame, but a large part of that expense is caused by the rules and regulationsour government hascreated on guides/outfitters. In most states, Just anybody can't set-up shop and start charging to take us hunting. In nearly every state, there are mandatory training & testingin safety, emergency first aid, guide skills, etc. that they must first take & pass. Then after they get all of that out of the way, they have to purchase a guides license. Usually, that's from someone who already has one because the state has put a limit on the number of guides/outfitters it will allow & theyhave already filled all available guide licenses. Next, in alot of places they have to find landowners willing to lease them hunting rights to private property within the area they are licensed to hunt. Even on public land, they have to apply for the exclusive rights to guide hunts in a given area of the National Forest.Once againvirtually all of those rights have been previously assigned to someone. Thus, again, they are looking for an existing outfitter willing to sell their rights to hunt in a given area of public land. Once they get all of that lined up, they then have to purchase or lease all of the tents, horses, stoves, bedding, lanterns, trucks, trailers, fuel, etc necessary to get their new clients to the camps. Finally, since they only have the short period of time alotted to hunt (the season), they must take on enough clients simultaneously to make the operation pay enough to cover expenses and make a decent living. Finally, do to our current "sue everybody climate" here in the U.S, you can't forget the cost an outfitter must put out to purchase insurance for his business. Ever look into what it costs to purchase the insurance necessary to cover you and your businessif you have an bunch of guys with rifles climbing aboard horses and heading up the side of a 40 degree slope?? Not to mention the fact that no one can guarantee howmuch experienceyour clients have either handling horses orusing firearms. Think about how much it costs you to get liablity insurance on your car, then think about how much it must cost to get liability insurance against the possible lawsuits if a client were to get killed by another client or seriously injured by a horse or mule. Heck, even the insurance to cover the possibility of a client having a heart attack and dropping dead while on a hunt would cost a small fortune since his/her family may just decide that they want to holdyou responsible in a court of law. At any rate, all of those things add up. And any outfitter must cover those costs in just a few short weeks every year. (By the way, I'm not an outfitter; never have been, and have only used an outfitting service once in my life. That was on a bighorn sheep hunt & I had no other way to get myself and my gear into the hunting area. I checked, and it was going to cost me almost as much as I spenton the guide just to rent the horses to do a proper job of scouting, and then rent them again for the hunting season. Guess what, once again, when I checked into why, I found out our state has regulations dictating who and how many people can rent pack animals within the National Forest. There are also regulations dictating how much insurance such an individual must have in order to rent horses on public land. Not to mention the fact that when you take pack animals into the national forest, you must also pack in "certified weedless" feed for them while they are there.And thanks to PETA, we now have regulations dictating how the animals must be looked after while they're being kept in the hunting camp.)

Regards, & Good Huntin',
LlindeX

ORIGINAL: MosesLakehunter

I don't have a problem with people charging whatever someone else is willing to pay. It does sadden me to see it getting harder and harder for the average Joe to hunt but I don't blame that on outfitters. I also don't care if someone pays to go hunt. I am not at all impressed with anything they get if they are paying however. I am impressed with the guy that does it on his own. In other words when I see a mount of someone who pays tohunt I don't think "there is a good hunter" I do think "there is a rich hunter".

ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis

...
I would rather stay home, then drive out there and fight the rest of the idiots for elbow room. ...

ORIGINAL: laufer303

Being one of those, as you called us "the rest of the idiots",I can guarantee you that I have more fun in the field any day, harvesting animals or not, than you can have staying at home and waiting for the pile of money to get high enough to hire somebody to “guide” you to make a kill. I usually have 4 big game tags, and success rate is 25% or 50%. The rest is enjoying being out there with the “rest of the idiots”. On the other hand, I will never get myself in a situationwhere "guides" drags me arround by my hand, tells me where to sit, where to look, aim and take a shot for 10 grand or more, just to have a rack on my wall, or come back home empty, like so many of the hunters that pay do.

Anyway, please watch your language, as it may offend people who hunt on their own, fair chase on public land.

ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis

You know that wasn't my point. Besides I'm sure you know what Idiots I'm talking about. You may not be one of them but you know who I'm talking about.

I'll use whatever language I want. I've already got a daddy so you can stop worrying about me.

If you like hunting where the pressure is high then go for it. I don't. Do not try to belittle me or my hunting style. I will not stand for it. You can think that the guides lead us by the hand and do everything but shoot for me if you want. But I can assure you that it just isn't the case. I don't care what you think of me. When you state it on here then I get defensive.

I also hunt FAIR CHASE ON PUBLIC LAND. The only difference is I live a long way away so I pay an outfitter to get me into the remote areas. Have you ever hunted with a partner. Shared glassing duty to cover more ground. Helped a buddy stalk, dress, and pack his game? Well, thats what a guide is to me. I'll hunt my way, You hunt yours. Best of luck!