Well now Dart, I don't think I studdered. Shot placement is BULL! There, thet plain enuff? Shot selection is what's key. You aim fer the middle of the kill zone presented. If the opportunity ain't good, you pass. Tryin' to pick out the heart on a movin' animal, with wind, partial obstruction, an' a hard breathin' triggerman ain't wise. Sure, onct in a while you git lucky. But don't tell fellers to plan on usin' their lil' gopher bullets on wapiti 'cause they can git lucky onct in a while. You aim fer the middle of the kill zone presented, thet way you got room fer those other factors to put you off a lil'. Poorly hit elk can run farther then mos' hunters can persue. Shot placement is a myth, spread by overactive imaginations with lil' experience hunting unner real conditions. Yer turn.

BJ

DART, you're fallin into Beaver boys trap. He just likes to ruffle peoples feathers.

I think ya both have a point. I think its very important to be as accurate as you can with your rifle, thats just ethics. I know I spend hours throughout the year making sure I can hit a milk jug at 400 yds. But I gotta admit elk aren't milk jugs. They run, walk at angles and do it all in the trees half the time. Then you got wind, uphill and downhill shots and trying to figure out your range. Most guys I know don't have a rangefinder and can't get an exact range on an animal. I do have a range finder and I only have the time to use it on half the animals I shoot. Most elk don't walk out in front of you and stand there broadside still as can be while you range them and set up. My point is that all shots are not in perfect conditions and I agree that you gotta have a bullet that is the best under the MOST conditions. Besides I don't care how good a marksman you are, you miss once in a while. I don't ever aim for the shoulder blade but I've hit one a time or two and you want a bullet that will go through it without breaking apart.

Rather,
If talkin' plain' 'thout no sugar coatin' is rufflin feathers, then I'm guilty as charged. But you seem to be a level-headed feller with some rings unner yer bark, so I'll leave you 'lone.

BJ

ok then let me put it another way. djc if you are gonna hunt elk then use 180 grn bullets and STILL SHOOT AT THE LUNGS AND HEART AREA. there are alot of bones in the front shoulder that as beaverjack says will make a three legged animal instead of meat in the freezer. if you take out the heart or lungs then they don't go very far if they even go anywhere <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

every elk that i've shot have been within 50 yards and only 1 was running which i still hit both lungs, it only ran 20 yards and dropped. like i said before practice alot and get to know your rifle and when the shot presents itself you'll be ready.

now then beaverjack, do you shoot a bow or just a rifle? shot placement is very IMPORTANT not only in bowhunting but in rifle season also, so it ain't a bunch of bull. and everyone should practice it or there will be a whole lot more threads like &quot;i got a three legged elk wondering arround and i need HELP&quot;. so by you saying that means that you either don't care or your just being a mean old cuss to me.



IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......

I ain't sayin' its impossible to git a easy shot at an elk's heart, I'm jus' sayin' don't count on it. The shoulder shot will take out both lungs an bust up his wheels ifn you hit whar you aim. If sumthin' happens an' you miss a lil', yer still gonna make meat an' he ain't goin' far fer sure. Shootin' off hand at a tiny part of an' elk will git you a liver shot critter or worser. Usin' a puny bullet might mean killin' an' elk an never findin' him. I seen puny bullets (mostly Hornadys) blow up on RIBS! Now think bout ifn you hit a big leg or shoulder bone. Puny bullets might work at bow huntin' ranges, but it seems kinda dumb to me to buy big long range shootin' irons an' stuff 'em with slingshot fodder.

BJ

Can't really argue with that statement Beav. Theres thruth in them their words.
Now go back in your corner, I thinks its your turn now DART, and remember keep it above the belt at all times.<img src=icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

fair enough bj but i will still use what i think is best for me be it 150,165,168,170,or 180 grn bullets. see that's the beauty of being able to re-load my own bullets. oh yeah i also take a slingshot when i'm hunting <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......

Wow this has been a pretty spirited discussion. I guess I might throw in my two cents.

For years I hunted with a .25-06 shooting 97gr and 110gr bullets and never lost an elk. Although they were all less than 150 yard shots and typically head or neck shots. My hunting partner begged me to go to a larger caliber but I was stubborn.

Well low and behold after I remodeled his basement for him he gave me a new rifle as a gift for remodeling his basement. He had done countless hours of research to find the ultimate big game round. So what he got me was a .338 Win Mag.

After much trepidation and resistance I took my new rifle hunting. We had also move to an area of hunting that extremely long shots were sometimes the only shot. After using my .338 I will never go back to the smaller round. Although the .25-06 is much more comfortable to shoot, I can shoot with confidence at long shots and know that the bullet has enough retained energy to kill the elk and not wound it. I now shoot the 225gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw in the Federal High Energy load (boy is that more expensive than my old .25). I also used to hand load 225gr. Barnes X bullets also.

It would seem that every one on this page has there favorite caliber and bullet. What I would say is this, you need to first look at the terrain that you will be hunting in and decide if the .28 will do the job. My opinion is it will limit the type and distance of shot you will feel comfortable taking. Where as the .30-06 will give you more options.

The bullet is another story. The 180gr bullet has a much better sectional density and ballistic coefficient than the 175,150 or any other .30 bullet. It with carry more energy down range. I am also a firm believer in premium bullets. I hunt for meat and I hate to waste meat due to a bullet fragmenting or exploding. Really anymore all of the premium bullets do a good job of retaining most of there bullet weight for deeper penetration and less meat loss. If you don't load your own bullets I would seriously consider the Federal High Energy rounds, you will see about a 10 to 15% increase in bullet performance over even the best hand load. They are more expensive but it is not like you are plinking with them.

Thanks for your time

Well I guess I'm going to add my 2 cents also. Shot placement is everything! If you don't have a good shot at the &quot;kill zone&quot;, front shoulder included, you should not shoot no matter what cartrige you are using. If you can't hit the heart and or lungs then your in for a long tracking job. Trying to punch through something that isn't necessary is just plain irresponsible. If you don't have a good shot then wait or pass. I personally use a .270 with 140 grain premium bullets on elk and they have all gone down with one properly placed bullet and none have ran more than 40 or 50 yards. I too aim for that one little spot cause it only makes sence since your bullet is going to where the cross hairs line up on the animal. It makes no sense to me to aim at the animal instead of a spot on the animal. If you are out in the field hunting then you should be responsible enough not to take any shots that are not going to end in a quick kill.
And to answer the original question, any of the bullet weights in either of the calibers are more than adequate for elk.

Edited by - bigbulls on 11/14/2002 23:39:45

121553 FOR MODERATOR


Good Luck. Capt Brad.