R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
08-28-2005, 06:02 AM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 882
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
Bowedark,
As for hunting on private land, here in Georgia, if you don't own land, lease land from and individual or company, you would have to hunt WMAs'. Most farmers and other land owners lease their land to pay property taxes, control the animals from crop destruction, etc., etc. In my part time job I'm constantly visiting farms and tracts of timber for various purposes and I sometimes ask for permission to hunt. If they have it leased to a hunter or group (which it normally takes a group to afford the price of the lease), then they won't give permission to hunt. There's 10 of us that has had 1000 acres leased for 21 years. In light of this, are the game animals we take off this lease not to be considered equal toWMAs',etc.
dog1
As for hunting on private land, here in Georgia, if you don't own land, lease land from and individual or company, you would have to hunt WMAs'. Most farmers and other land owners lease their land to pay property taxes, control the animals from crop destruction, etc., etc. In my part time job I'm constantly visiting farms and tracts of timber for various purposes and I sometimes ask for permission to hunt. If they have it leased to a hunter or group (which it normally takes a group to afford the price of the lease), then they won't give permission to hunt. There's 10 of us that has had 1000 acres leased for 21 years. In light of this, are the game animals we take off this lease not to be considered equal toWMAs',etc.
dog1
08-28-2005, 08:36 AM
#22
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 38
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
This will be my 38th year hunting big game. I've hunted on State, Federal and private land. I'll gone into the Lee_Metcalfe with two friends and rooted out elk. Ditto the Clearwater National Forest and the Allagash in Maine. I've swatted bugs in North Carolina in a treestand during September. I've also sat in a treestand next to a barn not sixty yards from a farm house with a bow in my hands.
I've been guided and I've done it myself. Not once, under any of these circumstances, did I ever think that I wasn't hunting by the rules of fair chase. The claim that hunting with guides is hunting is poppy-cock.
I've been guided and I've done it myself. Not once, under any of these circumstances, did I ever think that I wasn't hunting by the rules of fair chase. The claim that hunting with guides is hunting is poppy-cock.
08-28-2005, 06:21 PM
#24
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 54
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
Its at least part hunting and at worst nothing but waiting and shooting at an opportunity someone else put you on. That said, there are definitely guided hunts out here in the west where the only real function the guide provides, is as outfitter, wrangler etc.Those guided hunts are great because usually they are conducted wayyyyyyy baaaaack in the mountains which without a horse, you'd never be able to get in, or out. Knocking on some door of a ranch and having the proprietor waalk you out to the most likely stand or blind area is not hunting.It is waiting and shooting. Then they fix up your game meat for you....sickening. Or, even worse being driven out to the blind in a vehicle. Unless you are disabled and carrying the appropriate licenses for such, that aint hunting. You know your hunting when at the end of every day you barely have the energy to crawl into bed. I'm a purist that's all. You will never convince me otherwise. But I totally repect your rights to define hunting as you wish. For me it will always be about getting away from any ranches etc, and getting lonely with maybe a couple of good pals. I can guide myself thank God. Now, when I head up to Alaska I will use an outfitter to fly me in and pick me up. But I bring my own maps GPS, equipment etc...And up there, as well as many States in the lower 48, there are excellent guide/outfitter services where you are really in the wilderness, plains, foothills etc. they are a neccessity mainly for transportation not food plots...I could go on and on.The meaning of huntingthese days between the outdoor TV and commercialism/trophy growing makes it more like farming livestock than hunting.
08-29-2005, 12:05 PM
#26
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
PLEASE!!!!
I think the folks who judge guided hunts so harshly don't know what they are talking about.Have they ever hunted with a buddy. Did you both glass together. What if you buddy spotted a nice elk, and you shot it. Is that any different than a guide? I think some folks have the misconception that these guides know exactly where the game is and its like shooting fish in a barrel. BS!!!!! I personally don't concern myself with what other think.I don't hunt to impress others. Think what you want of me, I don't mind.
I think the folks who judge guided hunts so harshly don't know what they are talking about.Have they ever hunted with a buddy. Did you both glass together. What if you buddy spotted a nice elk, and you shot it. Is that any different than a guide? I think some folks have the misconception that these guides know exactly where the game is and its like shooting fish in a barrel. BS!!!!! I personally don't concern myself with what other think.I don't hunt to impress others. Think what you want of me, I don't mind.
08-29-2005, 12:29 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
So bowedark do us a favor and SHUT YOUR DAMNED MOUTH!!!
Seems like many assume that if you don't hunt their way (on both sides of this fence), there must be a reason why it's not possible for you b/c if it was possible, surely you would hunt like they do it. Maybe it's just a personal preference. Some guys (regardless of their income) like to do things themselves as far as the work associated with a backcountry hunt. It gives them satisfaction. Much like doin the work to restore an old classic car even if you got the money to pay someone else to do it.Others might want to be free of theencumberances that accompany a extended hunt so that they can concentrate on the beauty of their surroundings, sharing moments w/friends that they see all to infrequently, or relaxing and enjoying as much peaceful time away from the ordinary stress in their lives. sometimes there may be only one way to hunt, given a particular situation (AK). Some may have more options when it comes to hunting then others. This may come by their finanacial situation, or where they live, or their self reliance, but any person that enjoys hunting, can enjoy it however limited their own options are..that's what makes it so great. No matter what other benefits hunting brings(meat, scenery, memories, wall decorations,game population control, etc)I would bet that 99% of hunters hunt because it's fun and they enjoy it. It is this enjoyment that we should concentrate and not try to "one up" each other (which occurs often and yet is virtually impossible in the virtual society here). If the animal can get away..clean away, then it is hunting. How the rest happens is up to you. Your the one that has to live with the way you present yourself (in the real world) If people concentrated on the limited time that we all haveto enjoyoutdoors instead of if an animal is "book worthy" in the first place, there would be less division among a group already in the minority.
08-29-2005, 01:43 PM
#28
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
Hunting is a personal and should remain that way. Hunt where you like to hunt and hunt an animal that fulfills your personal goal, be it the freezer or a something like killing a little bigger deer each year.
All of the record books are full of guided animals and high-fenced animals. Public land or natural private land will rarely be able to compete with high-fenced, year round fed, mineral supplemented, genetically enhanced deer. Leave the record books to the managed ranches and those with more money than time. Record books are a wonderful promotional gimmick
for the sport.
There is nothing morally wrong with shooting a Booner off a corn feeder, at a high fenced managed ranch, out of some else's stand. The deer is likely to have a nickname and an ear tag, but who cares. It is adeveloped asset, no different than a steer.
If someone wants to do this and put it in the book -GOOD!
This type of hunting is not what I choose to pursue. I think it's a stretch to call it hunting, but...
Think of the money -the TV shows, the ranches, the guides, the catalogs full of gear. This type of hunting attracts the armchair outsdoorsmen who have large expendable incomes and homes in the suburbs. These guys are the massivepolitical and monetary support that will keep hunting legal and viable.
Those of us who like to get into a little deeper level of hunting can be guides, or just strike off into the National forest. Also most "armchair hunters" eventually move on. A lot of them will tell you that theraghorn from the National forestis really their favorite trophy - overthe 350 bull from the game ranch.
Yes, the ideas are different, but we need to get along for the sake of the sport. If the only hunters are those who are willing to go it alone in the wilderness for weeks at a time to get an animal, then we will be a small and lonely group. A group that will soon be extinct.
Hunters, shooters, fishermen, sportsmen, and even farmers need to stay united and not be divided by issues like game ranches, archery vs. rifle, feeder hunting, etc.
Let's not force our views on each other. Respectfully disagree - and hunt your own way.
All of the record books are full of guided animals and high-fenced animals. Public land or natural private land will rarely be able to compete with high-fenced, year round fed, mineral supplemented, genetically enhanced deer. Leave the record books to the managed ranches and those with more money than time. Record books are a wonderful promotional gimmick
for the sport.
There is nothing morally wrong with shooting a Booner off a corn feeder, at a high fenced managed ranch, out of some else's stand. The deer is likely to have a nickname and an ear tag, but who cares. It is adeveloped asset, no different than a steer.
If someone wants to do this and put it in the book -GOOD!
This type of hunting is not what I choose to pursue. I think it's a stretch to call it hunting, but...
Think of the money -the TV shows, the ranches, the guides, the catalogs full of gear. This type of hunting attracts the armchair outsdoorsmen who have large expendable incomes and homes in the suburbs. These guys are the massivepolitical and monetary support that will keep hunting legal and viable.
Those of us who like to get into a little deeper level of hunting can be guides, or just strike off into the National forest. Also most "armchair hunters" eventually move on. A lot of them will tell you that theraghorn from the National forestis really their favorite trophy - overthe 350 bull from the game ranch.
Yes, the ideas are different, but we need to get along for the sake of the sport. If the only hunters are those who are willing to go it alone in the wilderness for weeks at a time to get an animal, then we will be a small and lonely group. A group that will soon be extinct.
Hunters, shooters, fishermen, sportsmen, and even farmers need to stay united and not be divided by issues like game ranches, archery vs. rifle, feeder hunting, etc.
Let's not force our views on each other. Respectfully disagree - and hunt your own way.
08-29-2005, 01:53 PM
#30
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
Deercorn you show how much you know about this topic. Both B&C and P&Y do NOT allow animals taken in any contained areas (that even includes a 100k acre fenced in area in TX). Where do you think the notion of "Fair Chase" was established? It was established by Teddy Roosevelt and the others who created B&C in the first place!!!
Know whereof you speaketh before you doeth...
RA
ps
Hillbillyhunter you mentioned: "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors isntead of if an animal is "book worthy" in the first place, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..." I think you could also phrase that as, "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors instead of what another hunter is or isn't doing the same thing as themselves, or if someone killed something bigger than they did, or if another hunter gets to hunt better locations than himself, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..."
Know whereof you speaketh before you doeth...
RA
ps
Hillbillyhunter you mentioned: "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors isntead of if an animal is "book worthy" in the first place, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..." I think you could also phrase that as, "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors instead of what another hunter is or isn't doing the same thing as themselves, or if someone killed something bigger than they did, or if another hunter gets to hunt better locations than himself, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..."