Stone Cold

Well,

Last year, I guess we did not to the ground prep like we should but we did all the preping for the plots that we could. We planted $500 worth of clover and in the end....it did not grow well at all...it was very sparse.

So this year we will be liming, but according to everyone this could take two years before we can do any good. I was thinking about planting the Extreme Blend by the Whitetail Institute.

Is this a good choice or is the " designed for bad soils and extreme climates" just a ploy to get you to buy it?

I Need help..................Need to start work on plots soon and I am still confused on what route to go with the planting.

I am thinking about planting the Lab Lab and other types of grains and peas. If I can get an extended plot (3 year plot) that would be great BUT what I would hate is that I waste my time and money on another plot that won't grow. We have real sandy soils and low pH, that is why I was looking at the Extreme but I don't want to spend $200 for a bag of useless miracle seeds either.

doughboysigep

you just answered your own question - it didn't grow because you didn't do things "right" - don't blame the product if it wasn't planted correctly
with that said, with an kind of planting their are going to be risks, you can only do things (lime, planting options, maintainance, etc.) that help to minimize those risks and even if you do everything "right" you may still have poor results - "sh*t happens" as does mother nature

you need to get better advice - lime (if not incorporated into the soil) takes roughly 6 months to become effective

pH for clovers should be at least in the mid to high 5s; best to be in the low-mid 6s

Stone Cold

OK,

Then if clovers need that low...then I had that 5.5 so I did everything else right. The only thing that I was saying that I didn't do right was liming to get it as close to neutral as possible.

I have never had to lime a plot to get decent results from it, as long as I fertilized it.

NOW WHAT?????Did I answer my own question again.....LOL.....we thought I answered it but you unanswered it....LOL

doughboysigep

not quite but almost...

My 5.5 may be a bit misleading - that is not ideal, but I have grown clover at that pH (like I said 6s are better).

Again, maybe you have gotten some more bad advice - putting fertilizer on low pH soils does little to no good - without the proper chemical balance/pH in the soil the fertilizer will do nothing - something to the effect that the nutrient reactions cannot happen without the proper pH (more technical than what I know or can explain)

also remember you are in a totally different region than me. that in itself will make a big difference in what you can and can't plant, when to plant, how to plant etc. (i don'y think it has any bearing on the lime/fertilizer recommendations?)

My last bit of advice, as I have stated before, go to you local ag/extension agent, Soil & Water office or NRCS people and and get some better, localized advice (unless they told you about the lime and fertilizer )

have fun

Stone Cold

I appreciate your help. Just for your info. I contacted the whitetail institute and other "Targeted" Blend companies last year about the area that I hunt which is South Arkansas. I told them about the problems that we were having. Every one of them with the exception of one company told me that they couldn't help me because their seeds did not grow well in that region.

The only company that guaranteed me that their seed would thrive in the conditions that we told him was Tecomate...and they said they would only plant the Lab Lab.

Now, this year all of a sudden the Whitetail Institute comes out with this Extreme Blend....if the research on this type of seeds were actually going on....and we are talking about four months ago when I talked to them.......why couldn't they say......"Hey, we have a new product coming on the market soon that will handle those extremes"? I have a bad feeling that this EXTREME is a marketing ploy and there will be a bunch of disappointed people.

I hope I am wrong because I would love to have other options.

Dean

PS....From what you are telling me is that basically if I Lime......even though I do it right.....I still will miss the planting season this Spring due to the time it takes to have the Lime affect the pH of the soil.

lunchbucket

The ladino clovers need at least a 6.0 or better to do well. They do not do well in the more well derained soils, there have been exceptions. If you soil is well drained you will want to lime heavily to reach the 7.0 if possible. We have had clients that limed above 8 tonsd an acre. You may want to plant some rye and then some buckwheat for a year or two to add some humus.
Clovers, especially the ladinos, have different sweetnesses and different protein levels through out the year. We know of no straight, non-blended ladino that will maintain and protein level and sweetness of over 12-20% through out the year. You need both the sweetness and the protein, especially after the high stress periods and into the green up.

Russ otten

Stone,
Don't worry about needing 6-8 inches of top soil. Here in Northern Miss. my soil is lucky to have 1 (one) inch of top soil. That is if you don't consider red clay top soil. My soil test was a slight over 7.0, so I guess I might have overdone it. But I have grown Ladino, Kenland Red, Austrian Winter Peas all with good success. I do have to fight grasses though. That lime will gradually improve the soil, maybe quicker than some may think. Moisture is a big factor, and also the size of the lime. Get it ground the finest you can get, to a powder if possible. If you use Ladino, mix in some red. The deer seem to like the red much better than the White, but mine they destroyed and none came back, so the ladino took over. Does Clover grow in your yard? If it does, you can grow it in a plot.

Russ

Stone Cold

I am going to try a little this year but not much.

Yes, clover grows in my yard, and I can grow thousands of acres of food plots all in the area that I live....Problem is.....I don't hunt where I live. I hunt a different state and a different terrain.

I do have a camp with a yard where I hunt.....and you won't find one stalk of clover.

Darton02

Stone,

Since you are too late to lime 6 months in advance, you can add 1/2 the recommended amount of lime in the form of finely ground or "quick lime" to get quick results, along with the recommended amount of ag-lime (which will take about 6 months to take effect). Another words, if your soil test recommends to lime at 4000lbs/acre, then you can spead 2000lbs/acre of quick lime and 4000 lbs/acre of ag-lime and the quick lime will help with the 6 month "lag time" that the ag-lime will take to incorporate with the soil. Also, you may not want to give up on your clover just yet. We have had some plots take 2 years to develop into decent stands when they weren't intensively managed.

farm hunter

Where's the debate lately? - Serious;y - August is the "busy time" for this forum - and the people I learned from and that posted often are GONE - I posted to an old post - to show some who used to be around - Woodust - you reminded me that everybody is gone!

Where is everyone? PM Me - please!
FH