SwampTHING

O.K. we are going to be putting some clover in this year. We have fenced off 150-160 acres of the property we hunt so the cattle cant get to it(they werent in this area last year, made sure of it this year!). We've also fenced in a few areas that are about an acre each in the areas the cattle will be roaming(we plan on openning these to the cattle on a periodic basis throughout the summer).

We have been talking to a local cattle rancher, he has checked the soil and says the ph is good to plant without any liming. He has planted over 3000 acres in this general area with very good success. I want to know if the clovers he is using for cattle would be the same as what we want to put down for deer? Also does a clover field have to be mowed?

Dan O.

swampthing; what clover mix is he using? Cattle have different needs than deer. If it's pure clover with no grass it should be OK. The best types for our area are Ladino and Red. A little alfalfa and Trefoil won't hurt in the mix. You will have to mow it for rejuvination and to keep down the weeds.

Dan O.

St. Croix

ST, I planted a clover plot last year. It was and still is a dandy, however; the dairy farmer on the neighboring farm had an alfalfa field which pulled nearly every deer out of my food plot. Needless to say I am spraying the plot with round up and putting into corn/soybean rotation untill his field is put into corn. Mine will then be put into alfalfa.

I had Ladino, New Zealand and Alsike planted. They hit it only when the farmer baled his alfalfa and earlier in the year, just as the new seeding was coming up.

If I were you I would put in alfalfa, especially if your soil ph is at 6.7 or above.

SwampTHING

Dano I believe it is a mix of red and white, but you may be correct it may be red and ladino. Weve got the areas fenced and they have been sprayed,, just waiting for spring to scratch the surface and put down some seed. Corn or bean is just not feasible in this area,, I wish it were! We planted 2 dozen apple trees in this area last year, caging them was the smartest thing we did!

Is it absolutely mandatory to mow? The main areas we are going to plant are very difficult to reach(we have to put our atv on a boat to get it in there, then we have to run a few hundred yards of swamp). I'd much rather have something I can plant then forget about, any suggestions?

lunchbucket

There is a large difference in types of ladino clovers. Ph values will make all the difference in the world for each of them. A ladino mixture is the way to go. Do soil samples... Mowing clover should take care of most of the weeds, but grasses are a nother story. Grasses will need to be sprayed. Mow the ladino clovers when they are about to go to seed/head. If they go to seed then the weeds and grasses will go to seed with them. Mow at about a 10-14 inch height to about 4 inches if the weather is cooler and moist and 6 inches if the weather is not so cool and moist. Never mow when it is hot and droughty...

Romans 10:9 Psalms 42

Dan O.

Ladino is a tall growing (and the best) variety of white clover. It lasts longer than red clover with more foliage. The problems if you don't mow it are that the weeds will take over and the clover gets woody after it matures. You'll also get a lot a tree seedlings trying to repopulate the field. If the deer graze it or you let the cattle graze it after it matures it'll have the same effect. You could try a system similar to rotational grazing where you let the cows keep it down on a routine timetable. Just let them harvest it with time left for regrowth before the fall.

Dan O.

farm hunter

swampthing - I commend your efforts - planting an out-of-the way plot - If you get it up and established - it should be a real magnet!

No mowing - makes it real tough to keep a clover plot viable for more than 2 years. Even if you can get in once a year, to mow, your plot will draw deer better, and remain viable longer.

Dan's point is right on - Red clover, and alfalfa tend to grow faster and taller than white clovers. Without mowing, they get stalky, fall over and can even die out, especially alfalfa - since it does very little natural reseeding. The deer will switch off of it if this happens. I would not recommend either if you cannot mow at least once or twice a year.

White clovers in general are lower plants, and have a longer "stand life" than red clover. Ladino clover rarely gets more than 14" tall, White Dutch clover rarely gets taller than 6" tall. In my experience, white clovers grow thicker than red clovers, and flourish with constant browsing by deer.

The other circumstance to consider, is if your deer population high, they can keep a small plot "mowed" down quite well, especially if its the only plot in the area. However, our area has between 40-60 deer per square mile, and they cannot keep up with our 2 acre plots of Ladino - The white dutch, they do. If you open the land to grazing by the cattle a couple times a year, this could slove your problem - regardless of what you plant.

My favorite mix for deer is a White Dutch/Ladino mix 50:50 - I do not know how it fares for cattle.

( - EDIT : SORRY DAN & LUNCHBUCKET - IT LOOKS LIKE WE ALL HAD THE SAME THOUGHT AT THE SAME TIME - ITS GOOD WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME WAVELENGTH)

Good luck - keep us posted.




Edited by - farm hunter on 01/03/2003 19:32:42

SwampTHING

Thanks for the suggestions guys, believe me its helping alot!!

There are no food plots in this area for miles, just bush, swamp and pasture. There are no cash crops for 10's of miles, the terrain just will not allow it. This is the main reason we want to put plots in.

Our "guesstimation" is we have 60-80 deer on the 1000 acres we hunt as a permanent population. It easily triples in the winter when they yard up. We are trying to find a way to get them to stick around and the cattle doesnt help. When the property owners taxes are more than cut in half because of the cattle,, there is NOTHING we can do about it!! This is why we fenced off such a large area, it gives the deer an area where they will not be pushed out by bovine! Now we just have to feed them!

Dan O.

swampthing; I was reading an article that said deer need to consume 6-8 lb. of food each day for each 100 lb. of body weight. Unless your 150 acres is tillable and planted as crops you'll have a hard time producing enough feed for the deer populations that you're hoping for. An example would be for 100 deer averaging 150 lb: each deer would need about 10 lb of feed per day x 365 days = 3650 lb. So you need to produce 3650 x 100 deer = 365,000 lb (180 ton) of feed to look after these deer year round.

Dan O.

SwampTHING

Dano, good info!!

Im starting to think Id be much better off getting a couple 55 gal drums a couple electronic feeders and a half ton of corn!