LOL!

No ill will here either and I appreciate your honesty on the subject.

ghemry, I don't think that his statement is exactly correct. While passing on young bucks should produce older deer, older deer = bigger deer and older, bigger deer have bigger antlers, a side benifit of QDM. Older deer are harder to kill. The more seasons one survives, the harder they are to kill. The only way it would get easier to kill an older deer is to have more of them. Still older deer are much harder to kill. Why do you think the P & Y minimum is much lower than the B & C minimum? Because older deer are harder to get close to with a bow. What is the percent chance of a person killing a P & Y buck? Quite small isn't it? Therefore, I believe that by balancing the age structure of the herd and producing more mature bucks, dosen't necessarily make it any easier to kill one. I agree with you that when the age structure is in better balance, it makes for one heck of an exciting rut! I hear some of these guys say they've shot their share of P & Y bucks. How many is that? Were they all shot with a bow? There is a difference. Some, may not have ever shot one, so they don't really know what it is like to hunt and kill mature bucks on a consistant basis.

GregH,

Pope and Young minimum islower because they are a private club and that's what they decided to set their minimum at. Boone and Crockett is also a private club and sets their minimum higher. They also accept bow kills, infact they accept ANY form of weapon as long as it's legal in the state it's being used in. So it could be said that it's harder to break into the B&C club with an archery tackle killthan it isforthe P&Y club.

BTW when someone says "theykilled their share of P&Y bucks"they are referring to archery equipment as that's the only equipment P&Y recognizes.

What is weird is your failure to understand the logistics of hunting mature animals.

Here is a quote of mine from earlier in this thread.....

I guess I was expecting to much for some of you guys to grasp anything other then your ownthoughts.


Bigj

I am going to have to just say I disagree with you and your blanket statements of QDM. Much of what you say about who practice QDMisignorant, unfounded and untrue in many cases.

Of all the people who say they practice QDM, I bet only 1/4 of them really do. Just passing bucks is not QDM as I have said already. It is that 3/4's who give QDM the TDM feeling andpeople who view things such as you something to complain about. When you include me into your blanket statements of QDM it is pure speculation and BS.

What you may fail to realize is in an area such as mine(and yours IL)you don't have to practice QDM to grow large bucks...... I do it because I can afford it and number 1, I enjoy being out there and doing the work. It gives me personal satisfaction. It makesmy hunts and harvests much more exciting knowing allI have done to make my land a better place for the deer and other wildlife. I would rather shoot a lesser scoring buck on my hunting grounds then somewhereI have no blood and sweat into.

If there is something worthwhile to discuss I am in, otherwise I am done with these petty arguments.

We can agree to disagree then.

My point exactly, MOST whoclaim topractice QDM are not. It's been my talking point all along.

Please post my quote where I saidyoupractice TDM. The only thing I said about your situation is thatyou live in a time and state where the deer areplentyfull and you can absorb yourself into your QDM practices because you know full well it will produce bigger bucks while still looking nobel.

I never said you practiced TDM or didn't practice QDM. I just have my own opinions as to why you practice QDM....I believe I am entitled to them. Again we can agree to disagree.

Believe me that's one point I don't fail to realize at alland it's also preciselythe point that makes me question what the true reasonsare forsome people who claim to be practicingQDM in areas where it's not necessarily needed. Then add to that the lingo that is used and the emphasis that most put on antler growth and yeah.....I'm suspicious and doubtfull.


Buckeye,you may or may notbe practicing QDM for the right reasons (overall herd health) but that'snot the issue here. The issue is many areclaiming to practice QDM but all they are reallyafteris growing more big antlered deer.

There was a time when people talked abouthelping the deer herds it was all aboutthe numbers, ratiosand overall health of the herd.You didn't hear about bigger antlersor morebig antlered deer like you do today.

Only as time went by did antlers start to play a bigger role.As the herds began to rebound the language started to changed when it came to herd health. Now more times than not you hear about antlers first. This is a drastic change from the early days when it was all about the health of the herds. This has caused me to question peoplestrue motives for doing things in the name of herd health and QDM that's all.

Wow! You've got to be the longest winded, self proclaimed expert I've ever heard. You don't have to tell me about the P & Y or the B & C club, as I am a member of both and have Deer entered into both organizations. Like you told someone else, I'll tell you, I've been shooting deer since just after you were potty trained. There is nothing that you can tell me that I don't all ready know. Besides most of what you say is useless BS anyway. I know full well what each organization accepts for their record books, and no doubt it is easier to get into the P & Y record books then the B&C. The higher minimums is mainly the reason for that. But, the fact is that the P & Y minimums are lower because of the primitive weapons being used to take the animals. IT IS HARDER TO GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO KILL ANIMALS WITH BOWS THAN IT IS GUNS. This is the reason for the difference in minimums for entry scores.

BTW, I've heard many people say that they took a P & Y class buck during the rifle season. They use that to describe the size of their buck. So when people say that they've taken their share of P & Y bucks, they are not ALWAYS talking about using only archery gear. A lot of people don't enter their bucks so to them to describe it as P & Y classed buck is just their description reguardless of weapon used.

Well, I am done with this thread.

Have a great day gentlemen.

Scott

Greg.........YOUR only frickin 49!you're only 8 years older than me

Nice try though.

Who's the long winded self proclaimed expert? Have I EVER told you or ANYBODY ELSE for that matter that there was "nothing you can tell me that I don't already know"? No I didn't but it's YOU the guy who is accusing me ofitwho is actually using that language.....go figure.

You're just pissed off because people have been calling out the inconsistancies and the motives behind your precious QDM. You can't rebut it so you ONCEAGAIN stoop to playground tactics.

I responded to your postwhich in partyou said: To that I resondedthat the Pope and Young minimum islower because they are a private club and that's what they decided to set their minimum at. I also went on to say that it could be said that it's harder to break into the B&C club with an archery tackle killthan it isforthe P&Y club. Both are TRUE STATEMENTS!



You can try all you want to discredit me......I don't care it's just idle banter and I only have to consider the source.



Edit because I forgot how to add

Dude, you got to be a demolition guy and knock down concrete walls with your bare head or something!

No but I used to knock down linebackers and D-linemen in the NFLfor a living......close enough

Greg,

I don't want to bicker with you so I would like to call a truce to the name calling ok?

I think we can debate this topic in an adult manner. I believe I understand your views on QDM, I'm just trying to convey mine. You were around when the herds needed help so I'm pretty sure you can agree on how peoples thoughts and ideas about QDM has changed as the herds rebounded. Can you honestly tell me that more emphasis has NOT been put on antlers and producing more bigger antlereddeer? If I can see the change I'm sure you can as well.