I am from Pa and can comment on the AR. It works. The are some places where the deer herd has been overly decimated and people don't think it (AR) isworking just because there are so few deer, but the potential is still there for bigger bucks. In the areas I hunt and have hunted for a long time, the bigger buck numbers have gone up. Where I would see 1 or 2, 2.5 yr old bucks a season, and the occasional brute once every 3-4 years, I am seeing 6-10 2.5 yr olds, and 1-2 brutes a year.

What I am hoping to continue to happen is that as the potential for bigger bucks increases, people will pass on the smaller bucks that are legal in hopes of scoring on one of the big boys.

No Buckeye, I don't know your situation and I don't NEED to know your situation to make a statement like you quoted me on. To answer your other question, I feel I can make a statement about QDM like I did above because I REMEMBER what the state imposed and what we did as hunters in the late 70's and early 80's. I first started hunting Whitetail deer in 1976 with my father four years before you were even born.

I have seen THROUGH MY OWN EYES how QDM has changed as the years have gone by. Like I said you got into the game after most of the deer herds in our states had rebounded. I think I am qualified to scrutinize the lingo and posturing of the QDM groups then vs now because I remember how it wasback then.It was all about the herd, butI feel more and moreemphasis has been put on bigger antlers as the years have gone by.

Now that I answered your question, let me tellyou, I should not have to give you my qualifications to voice my OPINION!I highlighted the first part of your statement so you don't accuse me of putting words in your mouth or twisting anything you said. I never told you or anybody else WHY you practice QDM. All I have donewas givemy OPINION why I THINK most people practice so called QDM today, and that's first and foremostto grow big antlered deer. I still believe that and I have seen and read nothing to this point to make me change my mind.

You're welcome.

And to think, it was done by hunters shooting whatever age deer they wanted to.

ghemry,

Like I posted originally, I give you the benefit of the doubt and still do.

GregH,

In order to have a debate, ideas and opinions must be brought up for conversation.

Nice to see you bring so much to the table.

Thank you QDM Guru

This is how I view QDM today.
QDM is put in place for two reason health of the herd(habitat) and antler growth.

If we have healthy herd and bigger bucks I think more people would hunt. My dad is great example, could careless about shooting a big deer, he just likes to see them. Which is why we put QDM in place.

Why do you consider that "working"??? A decimated deer herd with some extra bucks with another year of antler on their heads is a good thing??

I thought it wasn't about antlers??

A "decimated" deer herd doesn't sound very healthy to me.......which is the real reason for QDM right??.......wouldn't that mean it isn't "working"??





It's amazing how much proof on this site alone has piled up showing that simply passing on some bucks makes it EASIER to not only see them but kill them as well.........It is a mystery why so many "trophy" hunters still cling to the lies about it being about the "challenge" of mature deer and so on Logic dictates that a true "trophy" hunter that enjoys the difficulty and challenge of finding and killing that rarest of the rare buck would get more satisfaction out of making that chore harder......not easier.

Weird.............BTW I am not talking about you rybo.



Why do you hope that???........just curious.

AR is working. Herd reduction is seperate. A decimated herd is supposed to allow the habitat to bounce back thus support more deer in the end. Not sure if I buy that, to me very old growth forests have little food to support deer. They need to log more IMO. There's no question much of PA had too many deer. Lessening the herd to reduce the chances of winter kill and making those that are there have more food, sounds like "working" to me.

It's still a challenge. Unless you are talking about places where you see 5-6 huge bucks a hunt. I'm talking about seeing these bucks over the course of a year, whether it's during scouting, spotting or hunting. Of all the "shooter" bucks I saw this season, only3 were whileactually hunting, and only one of those did I see on more than one occasion during all my collective time afield or spotting. I know you weren't really pointing at me, but there is a huge difference between making something harder and making it next to impossible. I never understood your notion that "trophy" hunters should want there to be little to no chance at all of themselves succeeding.

I wish that for aseveral reasons......1 is selfish, because the more people passing bucks, the more chance there will be for them to get old. 2 is because so many guys around here never had a chance to shoot a big buck. Now they legitimately do, so I would hope they take advantage of that 3 is thatmany of the legal bucks are still young and would really be nice ones as well once they got older. There's nothing any more special about a 1 1/2 yr 8 pt than there is over a 1 1/2 ys 5 pt so why not pass both.

Your exactly correct, I see more bigger deer, but now the challenge comes in scounting a certain buck and trying to get that buck. Although I shot a nice 10 last year I was not hunting that buck. I have been hunting an eight point for the last two seanson's and he has won. That is where the challenge is for me. When you do get a balance herd the rut is just amazing, I love to watch rut fire up. There are a lot of plus to QDM, for some reason some folks just focus on "You just want to shoot big bucks". Yes I do, because I have shot a pile of little one's. If I want meat I will shoot a doe. Please let me know any hunter who does not like to see and shoot big deer.

If I was at my cabin(Northern MI) the challenge is just getting a shot at a whitetail(mature no fawns), it is a whole differenet ball game. I tell people and I will tell you shooting a whitetail on public ground is one of the hardest things to do. It is much easier on my farm, just like it is easier in Iowa and Kansas due to hunting pressure. We(MI) have more hunting pressure than other midwest states. I am not bitter or jealous, no one said deer hunting was fair.

Thank you for the accolade but Inever claimed to be a QDM guru.

As far as how you view QDM today, I appreciate your opinion. I also think most view it the way you do. Wherewe differ is, I think most people put more emphasis on the antler growth partwhile using the health of the herd part as a smoke screen to accomplish their objective.....produce more and bigger antlered deer so it's easier to kill one. Again,my opinion.

And I will agree with you, but I do not think any evil plan is in place. I think hunters just like to see big deer. To me there is nothing better!! I hold no ill will I enjoy the debate. With out doubt one of the factors we went to QDM was the higher chance to see and shoot bigger deer.

I still think your the GURU