wvdeer4u

Well said Meathunter2. Well said. Maybe the PGC didn't educate the hunters as well as they should have about what they were trying to accomplish. But the problem with education is that only those who want to learn will show up at meetings and that is a very small number. Everyone else has their own hillbilly degree in wildlife management, why would they need to listen to professionals biologists. They already know everything about wildlife management and forestry.

green01

it sounds like meathunter and wvdeer4u are game wardens. you two seem to forget how good the hunting was just a couple of years ago. then the two week doe season and then the antler changes. seem funny how fast things went down hill with these changes. or maybe you work for a lumber company. you know if the lumber companys would stop some of the clear cutting the deer would have lots of feed. but i know you are to smart to agree with this. we call people like you college educated clowns. maybe you should do a little reading about changes that took place in the south states with the antler restrictions. and then tell us what a good job the comm. is doing. you must be to young to remember the days when the hunting was good and the game com. had some common sense. gary alt was a joke. and if he was doing a good job he would still be there.[:@]

jhalfhill

A deers age has nothing to do with his genes. A good gened buck could be a 4 point his first year and if he breeds does, those genes will be passed on.

hunter rich

I live in GA, I spent the first 1/2 of my life in SW NY. What I think PA should have done is what GA did. Try QDM in a few select counties and see how it comes out. Yeah, it will take more than 2-3 years, but you will see a healthier herd and more mature bucks. The first couple years people were bitching and moaning about "We don't see as many deer..." "I aint seein' no big bucks..." This obviously isn't workin'..." Today you have to put your name on a waiting list to get a large club in these counties, and the lease prices have gone up and up...Is this good? yes and no. I can't afford to hunt in these counties, but the people who can are killing some huge deer, body as well as antlers. And they are still killing does. Keeping the herd at the optimum level.

Just my .02

green01

i never said that the genes had anything to do with the age of the deer yo-yo. i am saying that if you only shoot the big bucks and never take any of the smaller ones and with low numbers of doe to mate with the good big rack genes will be lost. age has only a small % of the makeup of a rack. i have seen four year bucks with pencil racks because of the gene pool. why do you think the deer farms protect there top gene bucks. it would have made more sense to shoot only the 4-6 and maybe 8 points for a few years and let the big bucks do their thing. for some unknown reason people went along with Gary Alt on letting the deer live a little longer for bigger racks. if the genes are gone so are the big racks age will help very little. after a few years you may see more bucks but the racks will be garbage. seems funny that mother nature took care of the deer numbers for about 70 years and the hunting was great then in just a few years the game comm. destroyed it. there are a few places that the deer numbers are ok but most are not. Gary Alt was a legend in his own mind only.[:@]

cuernos1

Too much crying....

As for hunting in the South... It is obvious that green01 has not hunted Ga or Alabama or several other SOUTHERN states... Go to www.gon.com which is the Georgia Outdoor News and look at the truck buck contest and then reword your response... I have years of hunting the South and these 150+ bucks on my wall didn't get in the truck as I crossed the Mason Dixon...

The main item is carrying capacity,... I have heard all the whinning I can take on this one... THERE WERE TOO MANY DEER in many parts of PA, and yes you may need to stop drinking and walk more than off the porch to shoot a deer...

Go to a deer management seminar..PLEASE... and LISTEN...When every major magazine and publication and QDM program is talking about how PA was hitting the ball out of the park. Do you think maybe some of the loud wheels may not like the dirty word called CHANGE...

Definition of Insanity, doing the same things and expecting different results...

Georgia, has expanded it's QDM program but ask the GA hunter how many doe tags come out automatically when you buy a license... Is it still 7 or 8? plus 1 buck..

Carrying capacity of public land is less than farm land... But they are still there..

green01 the reason a 4yr old has a small rack is that there is not enough nutrition to feed the body then the rack.. Like all animals, they feed to survive first then to grow stuff like a rack...Question? When does a buck's bone close and he begin to fill out....if the carrying capacity of the land can not feed them then you have poor racks...

As to the breeding issue... Read some studies..Many times large racked bucks are not aggressive breeders...Many stay alone... Read the studies which use DNA to determine breeding aggressiveness...Most breeders from the studies reflect 3.5-4.5 yr olds to most of the breeding and many times the big buck ain't the king...

jhalfhill

im tired of all u out of staters saying this or that about the state of PA's deer herd. yeah so what you drove through I-79 through greene county and saw x amount of deer. i now hunt along I-79 in greene county because that is the only place in most of the state where deer are very numerous. Greene county is an exception to the rest of the state, why i don't know. I do know that, because I actually hunt here, other places in the state aren't that fortunate including where i live. We moved in 8 years ago and the deer were plentiful and did little damage to the crops. People went and bitched and moaned that there were too many deer, well they got what the hell they were askin for and thats a helluva lot less deer. i could care less that "other states are like this too so quit crying" i am concerned about my state and where i hunt and that is it. hell with everyhwere else i dont live there. i know how it used to be and how it should be here. so if you arent from PA dont even reply because you cannot relate to the subject.

green01

first of all i do not drink or do i hunt off my porch. we have hundreds of acres on the farm and i believe i spend more time in the woods in a month than you do in a year. i also believe that there are more hunters out on the first day of pa. season than there are in the whole season in ga and ala. when there are that few of hunter in the area you could give them all ten tags but i am sure that they are not many dumb enough to use them all. as for your reply on the amount of deer in pa. how can it help deer control in the southern half of the state if most of the hunters are in the north. why give bonus tags out in the northern counties if the southern counties are having deer problems. and yes i have family in ga that hunt and i know the hunting presser is not like here in pa. it is a bad day when i can take a trip all the way around the property and only see one or two sets of deer tracks. and this has been happening on a regular bases lately.[:@]

cuernos1

jhalfhill, look at my address...Murrysville Pa...My farm lies in that area...I did not just pass through... I am there all the freakin time....My place is truly set up to hunt...I have hunted in many other states and lived in many of them while I was serving the United States of America as a soldier... While away I took the opportunity to hunt and go to places that had great deer hunting...Many Universities have such programs... What Alt was doing was the same as many other states have already done... The problem with PA is it is still stuck 10 yrs in the past... I can say that cause I am one... Born and raised not a F%^&( transplant....However, when I went to school I listened and learned, then the Army etc...No where did anyone say don't change anything...

I used to hunt Potter and McKean when I was younger, lots of poor racks..Then we moved to Clearfield, bigger deer but racks few and far between... If you can not kill a yearling go back to the drawing board...I have never lived anywhere that I did not kill a good buck except PA...and I always wondered why, then I went to those other spots and found out why...

green01, great you have a farm...Then you know what I am saying about carrying capacity... If your farm does not have cover you will not have deer...What county is your farm in and what is the major food source...?? My farm is half the size of the 3 surrounding farms and I have more deer... I plant for keeping them and I have it set up to hold them.... Turkeys too...

BOWFANATIC

cuernos1
You wont sway anyone to your side with a delivery like that!


jhalfhill
First , dont think for a second you have the authority to tell anyone which topics they can/cant reply to!
Second , there are many states in the same position as yours which can and does qualify alot of folks here to reply to this thread with an understanding of the situation.