Defining fair chase....
12-15-2003, 10:31 AM
#12
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 352
RE: Defining fair chase....
I didn't see it, but one of my hunting buddies told me a few weeks ago on theTexas Parks and Wildlife TV Show they were interviewing convicted professional poachers. One of the poachers claimed to have poached four deer for different "clients" that were in the B&C Book.
12-15-2003, 11:24 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,079
RE: Defining fair chase....
Trophy it is hard to tell if someone is joking around through typed messages but I hope you were on your last statement.
Your signiture is Good hunting isn't it?
Your signiture is Good hunting isn't it?
12-15-2003, 11:44 AM
#16
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 288
RE: Defining fair chase....
the argument for what exactly fair chase will continue on for centuries to come. it's all based on oppinion. for instance i feel that rounding up wild stallions to be used as rodeo horses by using a helicopter is wrong. at the same time, i believe that putting on line drives in the woods to drive deer to sitting hunters is fine. the indians used to chase buffalo over mountains, plunging to their deaths. i feel on the high fence areas, you have to take into consideration of what the land owner is actually trying to accomplish by putting thousands maybe millions into their property and deer herds. i also think that these estblishments would be closely whatched by local maybe even federal humane society personel to ensure that the animals have the proper habitat and food supply and to make sure that the herd is in good health. this would cost a bundle...... after all, these types of things take permits and liscenses. i'm also pretty sure that to keep a herd healthy and strong, they do allow younger bucks to be harvested. i actually heard of one around here that if you take an 8-point or lower, you pay a penalty, but you are allowed. none the less, i can appreciate the hard work and huge expense that it would take to accomplish such a goal.......... with that being said i think that as long as the deer are totally wild and aren't shot while they're eating off the keepers tailgate, let them be counted.....anything other than that it would be as fake as pro wrestling
12-18-2003, 10:46 AM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Fremont, NE
Posts: 552
RE: Defining fair chase....
This is a debate that is only personal in nature....personal to the hunters that hunt each area and personal to the people that the stories are told to. As long as an animal is taken in any legal fashion, I'm all for it. It's the people that take animals illegally that make me mad.
12-18-2003, 11:20 AM
#18
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Defining fair chase....
If the fenced operation is stocked only with farm raised deer , inspected by the F&W or BOAH , then I have nothing to say about them . But if they "pen" in deer that rightfully belong to the state and it's citizens they should either be banned , or allow public access for free .
That line about the landowner's rights doesn't wash if they are confining deer that belong to everyone . Personally , I will NEVER go to one of those places .
That line about the landowner's rights doesn't wash if they are confining deer that belong to everyone . Personally , I will NEVER go to one of those places .
12-18-2003, 11:33 AM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: Defining fair chase....
My opinion of high fenced ranches and fair chase have changed a lots in the last few weeks.
I am still in support of all legal methods of hunting. There is still a place in my view for "package hunts." As I've said before, some of these ranches are very large, and this is really a business, more than it is a sport.
I do not support any type of hunting animals in any type of small "pen!"
However, to truely call this type of activity "hunting" is a slap in the face to any other legal means of fair chase hunting!
Last week our local newspapers outdoors section devoted about a half of a page to a "great hunter" who had taken two huge bucks this year. One was a 15 point taken on a 8,000 acre ranch and the other was a 16 point taken on another 45,000 acre ranch!
My gripe was more with the sports writer than with the "hunter!" This was not this writers first stupid story either! I don't consider him to be any type of "journalist" or "outdoor expert" when it comes to hunting, or fishing either, for that matter!
Anyway, the writer devotes the outdoor section to this great "hunter" and went on to say that these were "two great Boone and Crockett deer!" Any idiot should know that any deer killed within a high fence, are not accepted into the B&C books!
I guess I am just in the midst of changing my opinion of what hunting really is.
I still don't mind people who can afford this type of activity, doing it!
Just don't try to pass off "bought" deer, with the skills it takes to scout an area, build stands, and truely "hunt" the game!
Whatever legal method that you use, wether it is stalking, stand hunting, or driving, takes varying degrees of skill, not to mention physical effort, in scouting, setting up, and hunting! To me, these are more a part of the hunt than the actual kill! These are all part of "the hunting experience!"
Even if I could afford it, I have no desire to hunt stands that were scouted and placed for me! If that is what floats your boat, fine! Just don't try to flaunt that huge protein-fed buck off in front of hunters who work hard for whatever deer we get, be it a "trophy" 6 pointer, doe, or true B&C buck!
I am still in support of all legal methods of hunting. There is still a place in my view for "package hunts." As I've said before, some of these ranches are very large, and this is really a business, more than it is a sport.
I do not support any type of hunting animals in any type of small "pen!"
However, to truely call this type of activity "hunting" is a slap in the face to any other legal means of fair chase hunting!
Last week our local newspapers outdoors section devoted about a half of a page to a "great hunter" who had taken two huge bucks this year. One was a 15 point taken on a 8,000 acre ranch and the other was a 16 point taken on another 45,000 acre ranch!
My gripe was more with the sports writer than with the "hunter!" This was not this writers first stupid story either! I don't consider him to be any type of "journalist" or "outdoor expert" when it comes to hunting, or fishing either, for that matter!
Anyway, the writer devotes the outdoor section to this great "hunter" and went on to say that these were "two great Boone and Crockett deer!" Any idiot should know that any deer killed within a high fence, are not accepted into the B&C books!
I guess I am just in the midst of changing my opinion of what hunting really is.
I still don't mind people who can afford this type of activity, doing it!
Just don't try to pass off "bought" deer, with the skills it takes to scout an area, build stands, and truely "hunt" the game!
Whatever legal method that you use, wether it is stalking, stand hunting, or driving, takes varying degrees of skill, not to mention physical effort, in scouting, setting up, and hunting! To me, these are more a part of the hunt than the actual kill! These are all part of "the hunting experience!"
Even if I could afford it, I have no desire to hunt stands that were scouted and placed for me! If that is what floats your boat, fine! Just don't try to flaunt that huge protein-fed buck off in front of hunters who work hard for whatever deer we get, be it a "trophy" 6 pointer, doe, or true B&C buck!
12-18-2003, 11:44 AM
#20
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 24
RE: Defining fair chase....
I think this whole issue is indicative of our changing society. Slowly but surely, we are losing rural hunters who grew up chasing squirrels and rabbits and hunting for the pure enjoyment of it. Hunting is now a big business, like it or not. Personally, I don't. It's becoming more and more of a competition. If you don't kill a big one, you "failed".
Many people want to kill the bucks they see on TV, but they haven't taken the time to learn how to do it. They haven't spent hundreds of hours over the years scouting, reading, and learning through trial and error. Mistakes....that's how you learn. So, they pay all this money to go be a shooter. Face it, that's all they are. They have not scouted the land, patterned a buck, or learned how to do it on their own in many cases. A guide puts them over a food-plot or a powerline and tells them which deer to shoot. What have they done other than pay money and pull a trigger? To me that is awfully hollow. If that is what someone wants to do, fine...but I have no desire to do that, nor will I respect their ability as a hunter when they are later telling me about all the big bucks they've killed at XYZ ranch.
Now if someone consistently takes a buck representative of the upper-echelon in their area...that is a hunter AND a deer to respect. I just don't get the "have to" to kill a big buck. Again, it's personal, but I'd rather truly hunt and kill a 120 class here in Ga. than to pay a few thousand to go to Texas or wherever and shoot a 170 class I didn't earn.
Many people want to kill the bucks they see on TV, but they haven't taken the time to learn how to do it. They haven't spent hundreds of hours over the years scouting, reading, and learning through trial and error. Mistakes....that's how you learn. So, they pay all this money to go be a shooter. Face it, that's all they are. They have not scouted the land, patterned a buck, or learned how to do it on their own in many cases. A guide puts them over a food-plot or a powerline and tells them which deer to shoot. What have they done other than pay money and pull a trigger? To me that is awfully hollow. If that is what someone wants to do, fine...but I have no desire to do that, nor will I respect their ability as a hunter when they are later telling me about all the big bucks they've killed at XYZ ranch.
Now if someone consistently takes a buck representative of the upper-echelon in their area...that is a hunter AND a deer to respect. I just don't get the "have to" to kill a big buck. Again, it's personal, but I'd rather truly hunt and kill a 120 class here in Ga. than to pay a few thousand to go to Texas or wherever and shoot a 170 class I didn't earn.