super_hunt54

Jeep, RR, you are both smart enough and accomplished enough as shooters to know full well that the .223 is a marginal cartridge at BEST and even given the better constructed bullets on today's market just isn't a cartridge that should be recommended for anyone that hasn't been in the hunting game for a good while and is highly picky about shot choices. You both know full well that you have to avoid shoulder with it no matter how good a bullet is loaded up in it because it simply doesn't have the weight or horsepower needed to CONSISTENTLY take on whitetail sized games shoulder area. Is it capable of taking down deer? Yes but the fact still remains only seasoned and experienced hunters/shooters should be using it because of the limitations on it. The OP stated he is fairly new to hunting so why recommend a cartridge that is marginal at best? Yes he wants a combination varmint/whitetail rifle and I am sure you BOTH will agree that a .243 or a 7mm08 is MUCH better suited to his needs than the marginal .223.

Sheridan

+100

"I've seen this movie too" EJ

Ridge Runner

a list of whats legal where, notice even Wyoming made the 223 legal in 2013


Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol onlyIndiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum)
Kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML*
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
Vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- a 223 is now legal for deer and antelope, but the bullet has to be 60 gr or heavier.
RR

Uncle Nicky

For $1,500 you can buy 2 rifles. I's get a .308 or .30-06 for deer, and a .22-250 or .223 for varmints.

Ridge Runner

I keep reading that its marginal, or marginal at best, horsehockey! compare it to a 30-30 with a 150 gr bullet, it makes 580 ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards(federal 64 gr. power shock factory load) compared to the 30-30's 652 ft/lbs (federal 150 gr power shock factory load) is the 30-30 also marginal? the rifle that's killed more deer than any other made since 1892 when it was first produced?
I'm going with its adequate at least, it shoots flatter than the 30-30, drifts less and has almost as much energy with less recoil. the main difference is a smaller bullet hole which really makes no difference if you put the bullet where it needs to be. These days when I hunt deer with a 223, I use plain vanilla 55 gr soft points, wait for the onside leg to go foreward and hold on the crease behind the leg, there is a 50-60 yard death dash and they pile up in a heap, not unlike the results I get with any other non-magnum centerfire up to 30 cal.
those who have never put the little cartridge through its paces really just don't know.
RR

flags

Well, I've shot men with an M-4 (basically a shortened M-16 firing the same 5.56 ammo) and I've seen it take a couple of rounds to put a guy down. For my money the .223 is a little light for deer. Not saying it won't kill one deader than charity at the DEM convention but there are much better rounds available. Therefore it isn't "perfect" despite what another member has claimed. There is a world of difference between killing a deer standing still perfectly broadside and killing one on the move quartering away, no matter what the distance is. A perfect cartridge or caliber is one that can get to the vitals no matter what the shot angle is and the .223 with expanding ammo simply can't do that. FMJs will do it but not soft points designed for hunting.

Just my 2 cents worth. Feel free to disagree if you wish too.

d80hunter

I have made statements similar to Topgun on this subject. I was concerned about new hunters getting the wrong message. Long shots plus small calibers is not the message I recommend. Sure I have made my own kills with weaker than average calibers but this was never about about me or other hunters who have many seasons under them and are moderate to seasoned marksmen. That is all I have left to say on the matter.

Game Stalker

The OP has been silent for quite a while. I'd like to hear his response concerning the advice he's received.

super_hunt54

And really RR, who in the hell takes a 30/30 out to 300 yards? Noone with any sense! Since it is a cartridge designed for lever guns and for 200 yards max. You are trying to compare apples to watermelons there. And you also made my point for me in your shooting script as well. You wait for a shot that AVOIDS shoulder because you KNOW that that cartridge isn't up to snuff. I don't think I nor anyone else on here said it wouldn't kill a deer. We are all saying it is not a cartridge for an inexperienced shooter that doesn't have the patience or the experience to wait for that tiny shot window that a more seasoned hunter (that knows he is using a weak cartridge) will wait for.

Ridge Runner

The cartridge isn't weak, I use that shot because I use a fragile bullet because I have a dozen cases of them, with good bullets if you clip the shoulder its no big deal.
a bad shot is a bad shot reguardless of what cartridge its fired from, inexperience is not the fault of the rifle or bullet, and your the same group who will chant "a bigger gun won't make up for poor shooting"
new hunters have to learn, some can learn from what others tell them, some must experience it for themselves, some go through life never trying things because they have themselves convinced it won't work.
RR