Well Superhunt, what is happening in this thread isn't teaching anything other than one segment of hunters believe they have some kind of moral high ground over other hunters, especially by two posters. It is one thing to just go out and take shots that a person is not competent at taking and quite another to practice and hone long distance shooting. I don't shoot at the distances that RR shoots, not even close, however if a person is competent at a thousand yards it is the height of elitism to claim what the do is not hunting and different methods of hunting are more ethical. If a person is good at what they do and their kill to shot ratio is as good as those who shoot at shorter ranges, and that would include me, what right does anyone have to demean their method? And make no mistake about it, that is exactly what has been happening on this thread by those who disagree with that kind of hunting! As anyone who has been here for any period of time will know, RR and I do not see eye to eye on a lot, however when hunters criticize other hunters for using a perfectly legal method to take wildlife that is different from what they do, and the person using those methods are perfectly competent at what they do, they are helping those who would end sport hunting. Yes, RR asked the question, however the discussion has gone beyond why others don't take long range shots to anyone who does isn't hunting, just shooting, and that is pitiful. This thread has outlived its usefulness.

CI that is dependant on the accuracy capability of your rifle/load combo, a rifle that shoots 2" groups at 100 will do no better than hit somewhere in a 14" circle at 700 yards, for target shooting that could well be "good enough" it depends on what you want to achieve
RR

Yes, Ridge asked and members shared . My statement was general and applies to all of us. It will be just as true today, tomorrow or yesterday.

To expand on that a little CI, a well bedded, trued action, and better than average barrel are needed for long range accuracy. Not to mention a good optic and well tuned ammo matched up to your chamber (basically what your rifle likes to eat the most). Barrel harmonics comes into play at ranges past 400 yards, twist rates for varying weights/lengths of bullets to find that special match up between rifle and barrel. Top end trigger with perfectly clean, crisp break and 0 creep. Different powders/primer combinations. Even sizing and trimming your cases as well as case wall thickness comes into play when playing the long range game. When I reload for my long range rigs, I go so far as to make sure my bullets are within 1/16th of a grain in difference. Hard to get closer than that. Then you have the hundreds of hours on the trigger sending round after round learning each and every little nuance about your rifle and how each shot feels on the break. All the calculations needed for things such as Barometric pressure, temperature, actual humidity, wind speeds and direction, your muzzle velocities and Ballistic Coefficient of the particular bullets you are sending. And that's just the basics! Sounds like a lot of work, and it really IS but it is enjoyable. But it sure aint cheap to get to where you can send accurately, and more importantly, CONSISTENTLY into the ring or steel.

Thanks for the advanced info SH 54. Wow way more than this old Vermonter could ever have time to learn. Lots of science and engineering in the pursuit of perfection for long range expertise. With that in mind I can offer congratulations to those shooters who have honed their craft. Back to my question...with the best of the best...how far can a person accurately shoot and thinking about a military use.

There have been several confirmed sniper kills over 2,000 yards in modern times. Also, one in 1967 to Carlos Hathcock. I have no idea if these guys could "target shoot" at these distances, but they managed to get confirmed kills. There are people out there able to reach a mile as well. Which is a little over 1700 yards I believe. A quick youtube search shows some videos at 2,000 and even some over 3,500 yards but I didn't watch any of those. Some of the more knowledgeable guys will have to say how far they've grouped on paper.
-Jake

Kirby Allen killed a 1/2 grown marmot at 2200 yards, craig Slick I think his name is, is on a quest for a prairie dog at 2 miles.
The official 1000 yard 5 shot group is like 4" fired at thunder valley range in ohio.
RR

Hunting is normally that the first round is the one that counts. You may or may not get second chance and as often as not, your first round tells you what the atmospherics are doing at extreme ranges.

The atmospherics gave me more grief than most other things. I could usually keep a decent group, but the group would move around the paper as the air temperature changed. I'd start shooting early and as the range warmed up, the point of impact would change.

With my .308 bullet drop was around 55 inches anyway at 500 meters, the air layers, the temperature and even the bullet going from near mach 3 to mach 2 would have some effect. In other words a lot of variables. I've always had a small talent for picturing various events in my mind and correlating an outcome. And was consistent enough to shot fairly tight groups. My problem was the shot groups would move around the paper as atmospheric conditions changed, minute of angle changes were common from one hour in the morning and say two hours later. Rain, wind, ground fog. ambient temperature, even how warm my rifle was would have some effect.

First round hits on antlered game, above around 500 meters are iffy. At least for me. 350 is about my limit for a reliable hit. Real world you are rarely shooting flat, it is either uphill or downhill and that is a whole other can of worms.

Something else many people forget is that a bullet doesn't fly in two dimensions, up and down. Besides the wind, it flies in kind of a corkscrew.

Maybe I'm just not smart enough to grasp all the variables and spit out a good enough solution to reliably bring down Antlered game at extreme distances.

Maybe i need to bring a ballistic computer with me. :)

The way I see it is, long range shooting is just another skill set. Man is a pack hunter, but the individuals in the pack all bring different abilities and skill sets to the hunt. Some are better at sneaking and creeping, some are faster, some are better shots, some better at tracking or reading sign. My skill set is I seem to find game when nobody else does, I don't know exactly how I do it, instinct I guess. For years the county paid me to do game counts, the old round peg in the round hole syndrome, that rarely ever happens in reality.

There's a lot of variables needed to answer that question CI. What type of conditions will the "engagement" be under? What system is the team carrying? US team or another countries force? I believe the longest recorded kill shot was made by a UK sniper at close to 2,500 meters with a L115A3 chambered in .338 LAP. I'd have to look it up to be sure but I think that is the recorded longest in fire in action. Another was pretty close to that from a Canadian sniper using a .50 cal.

Sorry double post, I'm getting ready to go look for a sounder of hogs I've been watching for the last couple of months and trying to post quick. :)

never put much faith in the UK record, the bullet that was claimed to be used went subsonic IIRC 600 yards short of the claimed distance, a bullet can remain stable through the transonic stage, but then fly another 600 yards in the subsonic mode and still impact within 1/2 moa?
RR

Chris Kyle, US Navy SEALs, had one at 2,100 yards and it was a 1 shot kill. Should we believe that one? .338Lapua. In his book, if I remember correctly, he basically said it was luck and wouldn't happen again.. (Again thats from memory it's been over a year since I read it so that could be way off) ...

But I'm curious as well RR. How far have(could) you "target practice" I've seen your 700 yard grouping. But have you shot groupings out to 1,300 etc? Or is it all just crunching numbers and dialing the scope after a certain range? How far could you print..say a 12" grouping.
-Jake

Yeah, always thought that one smelled a LITTLE fishy but yes there are some bullets custom lathed and balanced that have extreme BC efficiency. Or the SOB just got lucky :D (always been my assessment). I know the Canadian one was verified. Funny story about that one was they had run out of their own ammo and was using American rounds! And if memory serves me correct, most of their shooters carry Tac .50's right? Pretty sure they don't carry Barretts but the McMillan.

Dag nabbit you kids get all the fun new toys!!!!

Chris was one of the most humble men on the planet from everything I have read and heard about the man. He would probably say his 100 yard shots were luck as well.

jakeI have shot 1500 yds a few times, even at my best I could never break 10" with 3 shots so that was beyond my capabilities

super, they were shooting a standard load with a 250 match bullet, not a bad bullet but not a super high BC for a 338, it definitely does not take full advantage of the lapua's capacity, have shot some 200 gr wildcats in my 7mm AM with a BC somewhere around .84 it is impressive at 3200 fps

not only ws the guy using American ammo, was still coming up short so he llet the ammo bake in the sun to boost the MV so he had just enough up if the turned it all the way up then used the BDC reticle to make up the difference. He did have a McMillan tac 50, a varmint rifle chambered in 50 BMG
RR

it just came to me, Rob Furlong was his name
RR

i don't have a problem with you shooting as far as you are capable but for me i would rather the deer almost walk between my legs! i like the excitement and challenge of getting close even while gun hunting. i actually shot a deer at 3 yards while it was a sleep well he actually woke up just before i shot him to me that's my kind of hunting you probably won't get that kind of excitement shooting at 800 yards??

Speaking about ballistics...I was wondering how altitude plays in. I live at 118' ASL and sight in at home. I hunt near home at low altitude and often go to my deer camp which is nearer to 2000' ASL. I never detected any change from home to camp at zero for 100 yds. For the past 10 years I have hunted elk and muleys in Colorado at up to 11,500' ASL. I always sight in again in the valley at 7500' to make sure the gun didn't change due to the trip. I always tweak it so I am 2" high at 100 just to push my reasonable bullet drop out to 300 yds since I don't have a BDC reticle. I never had to shoot that far and to the best of my memory a 200yd shot at the muley in my member page was the longest. All my elk were less than 125 YDS. Just wondering how much our resident experts would say a 30-06 shooting factory ammo with a Barnes TSX 180 gr would vary according to altitude.

At your ranges CI, it has a negligible effect. Basically, it's the Barometric pressure that effects the bullets drop. With the air being thinner, the bullet is experiencing less resistance. Gravity is still a constant and it's downward rate of speed is the same, but with less air resistance its forward path is easier. The higher the altitude, the higher your Ballistic Coefficient is going to be. But out to 300 yards with your setup the difference would be less than 1/8 of an inch (educated guess of your muzzle velocity and BC calculations). Now when you start poking out to 600+ is when you will have to dial up less than you would at say 2000 feet ALT. At least noticeably more.

Ridge, why would care what ANYONE thought, especially anyone on the internet??????

I say good for you if you can get a deer at that range. You obviously have the equipment to do it. I shoot at the range I am confident at. That might be 120 yds max with what I have to work with and my shooting skills. But my 120 yd shot is probably no more accurate than your 600 yd shot.

Obviously he cares or he wouldn't have asked the question. Caring is good. And it goes beyond what other people think on the internut. I care about the animals I harvest. People who don't care or lack any sort of empathy, have a problem.

I am glad he brought it up simply from an educational stand point. I always knew people shot at long ranges but didn't understand all that went into getting to that level of marksmanship. I imagine it is quite a rush getting past a few of the barriers. The easy part probably is in the beginning those last few hundred yards probably come tough.

Thanks and that won't be happening. I know my limits. I am not known as a great shot but am a pretty decent old style hunter.

I always leave the altitude at "Zero" but I carry a barometer and enter the station pressure (barometric pressure at my location) into my handheld, the program adjusts my BC for me
RR