Meat vs. Antlers....
 

I've had a few discussions with other hunters regarding those who say they are strictly meat hunters......that they could care less about antlers. Now to clarify, I absolutely love wild game. I'd dare to say that at least 3/4 of the protein we eat is venison, game birds, and fish, but I also love hunting big, mature buck (or any other mature big game animal).

My argument when someone tells me that could care less about antlers is that if a young forkhorn or doe were standing next to a monster B&C buck, how many people who say they are strictly meat hunters are going to shoot the doe or forkhorn? I don't know anyone who would pass on the B&C buck..

I had a granola type friend a few years back who used to give me a bit of a hard time about the antlers on the wall.....said he only hunted for meat.......until one day I stopped by his place and he had a big Muley Buck hanging in his garage. I asked him why he shot it instead of a doe (we could should Muley does at the time)... He had a sheepish grin on his face, shrugged his shoulders and said, "I don't know"......

I'll take the first legal animal I have a crack at. In some areas that I hunt, CO for instance, you have to decide in April if you want a buck or doe and apply accordingly. So when the season rolls around I will have a doe tag in my pocket and any buck no matter how big he is will get a pass.

If I'm hunting an area where I can take either sex then I'm pulling the trigger on the first legal animal I run across. If it is a doe, fine. If it is a buck, fine. I've never hunted specifically for antlers. To me the meat is what matters and all deer, bucks and does, have meat. So to me, it doesn't matter if it is a big buck, a little buck or a doe. If it is legal, I'm going to try and take it. If I was in the scenario where I had a doe, a small buck and a big buck and I could legally take any of them I'm taking the first one that gives me a good clean shot. But, that's me and I won't expect others to do likewise because to each his own.

Well Mr Bison, your argument doesn't hold water with me, and several others I know. If there is a big rack buck next to a bigger bodied doe, which is not all that uncommon where I hunt, I have killed doe that approached 180 lbs, I will take the doe. I do not care one whit about antlers, I have killed a lot of deer in over 50, years of hunting and you will not find one rack at my home. I gave them all away. For me the act of hunting and the comradeship of those I hunt with is what turns me on and turning what I kill into delicious meals. I can't even make soup out of antlers. I suppose it is hard for those enamored by and those who covet big antlers to understand they aren't worth spit to many of us, they grow them, they fall off and they grow them again. This obsession with big antlers will eventually kill sport hunting and hunting for the sake of the enjoyment of hunting. It has already started with the high fence operations where you pay for deer by the inch of antler, and with the so called hunting shows with the so-called experts who simply climb in a stand that has been set up for them and the areas scouted and perhaps baited and they shoot a large rack buck and pretend they were hunting. I have had many a good meal from the game I have killed, I have fed many people with the game I have killed. I have yet to feed anyone with the bone on the head of an animal I have killed. Far too many people believe the size of the antlers on a deer someone kills is the deciding factor on how good a hunter that person is. That is a false belief! I do find it amusing that those who covet bone just can't seem to grasp that not everyone does. That said, if limiting ones self to just large antlered deer is your thing, have at it, just don't call those who say they don't, liars!

It is asinine for somebody that kills a doe and eats to think they are more of a meat hunter than someone that kills a buck and eats it. It just comes off as bitter to me.

There shouldn't even be such a thing as meat VS antlers

I have passed on smaller does to shoot bigger does. I have passed on does to shoot the big fork because he had a bigger body. Certainly didn't shoot him for the forks. Typically, I am after the biggest body. With that said, I certainly don't mind if a big bodied rack walks in front of me but the heads just go in the head/rack pile downstairs while the meat, it still goes in the freezer.

I,like big racks and i will not lie! Oh,wait that song was about big butts? Sorry.

I agree but the antler hunters get mad at me because I didn't let the fork/spike/small rack "go so he could grow".

Meat over antlers. My deer jerky has gotten me more recognition than any set of antlers I acquired. The only time I got overly excited about a buck was;
1. It was the biggest buck I ever seen, biggest body and rack.
2. I already filled my buck tag for that year.

I couldn't shoot this buck and had to watch it for 30 minutes rub giant trees under my treestand. It was the one that got away deal. This puts perspective on why I hunt, it is the memories that are the real trophies.

After many years of primarily trophy style hunting, I finally came to my senses and realized that those antlers don't do a damn thing for me except cost money! They don't feed me or my family. In your scenario, if given the choice, I will smack a Doe 10 times faster than an old buck. That's not to say that a big old racked buck would be 100% safe from me as if that's my only choice I'll drop him and make up a big vat of burger and stewing meat as that's pretty much all that they are good for!

Just as a PS, last season the biggest rack buck I ever saw, wide 10 point, was standing in front of me at 40 yards or so broad side, I had the cross hairs behind the shoulder with a good rest and that was a dead deer. I told my grandson to shoot it. He shot, he missed, I didn't lose a second of sleep and after I talked to him, I doubt he did either. And Rockport ,if that is what you got from from my post, it is also asinine.

Its not bitter that you don't care about antlers......good for you.

Its bitter that you are so angry that other people do care about antlers.

Rockport you have a perverted sense of understanding what you read. The post was started by a person who tried to sell that people who say they don't care about big racks are liars. My response wasn't bitter, it was telling him he is full of crap because I am not a liar and I could care less about big antlers. If you read my entire post I said if people want to hunt for bone have at it. I also said there is too much importance out on bone by the so-called hunting experts on TV which has bled off onto the regular hunters who don't have their trips paid for by sponsors, which is true. Perhaps you thought I was talking about you, I was not, I could care less about what you do. In fact, when comparing posts, it is you who you sound bitter.

Mountain Man, you crack me up!

For the record, I like antlers as much as tenderloins.

I like tenderloins more than antlers. Then again you know that Rob..:biggrin:

Here is where the problem lies(and it is certainly not with my reading comprehension) You like to just lump us all together and paint us with the same brush.

You say "Perhaps you thought I was talking about you, I was not" well I covet big antlers and right there in your own text you said "those who covet big antlers" How did I miss comprehend that? Maybe the problem is more your typing than my comprehending?

You see I don't like being lumped in with these other things simply because I like to hunt mature deer or "covet big antlers" I don't like these other things any more than you do.

You see Ive had a blast already this year with like minded friends and family watching deer,checking cameras,spending weekends in the cabin. Chasing mature bucks is going to kill hunting for enjoyment? What? Maybe for you.

I will harvest meat for the whole year and I can do that in about a week.......now that would kill my hunting for enjoyment but because I chase mature bucks I will be in the woods hunting deer for almost 4 months instead and preparing for it for most of the year. If you want to go shoot the first deer you see and go home thats great but I will be hunting and making those memories almost all year long.

It is not killing the enjoyment of hunting just because you don't like it.

You are a true granola trophy hunter tatonka.

You are a hero LOL

Hey tatonka? maybe you can give this meat hunter some pointers on how i can get a trophy?

Let's cut the head and antlers off and carry it out of the woods, and worry about the meat later? I know- Maybe you hate the taste of wild game? So you should give it to.. Hunters for the Hungry? Anyway Bud I hunt for meat 1st and foremost, and that means (for me) usually, (not always), taking the biggest baddest buck/bull. It's not that hard of a scenario to figure out really?

First and foremost I eat everything I kill. I usually shoot the first mature doe I see in October, then it's strictly mature bucks up until the first shotgun season. During shotgun season it's does or mature bucks, after shotgun season i'll shoot as many does as I need. Hypothetically, if I havent shot anything, and a big doe was 10 yards from me, and a mature buck was well out of range, but in the vicinity, I will pass on that doe 10 out of 10 times. Big bucks taste just good as a doe in my opinion, and nothing gets the heart going like big antlers.

You can't eat horns or hides, but You can't display tenderloins on a wall either !!!

Depends on where you live
 

Live in a large, sparcely populated state, your attitude about antlers can be different.
I was born and lived in a crowded eastern state. To me a trophy was nice, but every deer was a trophy deer. It made great stews in dumplings on a cold winter night. That was taught me by my mother, the chef.
There can be a difference when you can hunt and cook too.

Some on this site may honestly not care about shooting a big buck, but I'd be willing to bet 85-90% of those in the woods would shoot a B & C buck before shooting a doe. I know I would, and I literally don't have room in my house for another mounted head. My biggest dread of killing a deer like that is dragging his carcass back to the truck.

I have a self imposed size limit on the first buck of fire arm season and Muzzle loader season. I set that at 8 PT. or better. That does not mean I have not shot smaller bucks first. Last year I shot a 7 PT. I thought was an 8 but the view at 93 yards was not that clear.

I myself just do not shoot does any more. Leave them for the city boys and youngsters. I can buy 5 doe tags a day over the counter every day the season is in we have so many does in the area.

As far as hunting for humanity they can go and whine some place. I will not shoot a deer and pay for it to be butchered by a certified butcher then give it away.
I butcher my own game and if it is good enough for me then it should be for those starving people.



:D Al

Well i hunt for meat 1st and foremost. I don't worry about dragging,packing or butchering out any deer from a White-tail to a moose? It's all part of the hunt for me, The bigger, or the tastier the better. I gotta go bow hunt, opening day here!!!

By the way i love trophies and meat, but meat is better :)

I hunt on the other side of Pa. from oldtimer. western Pa. we have two weeks of rifle season to hunt deer. the first week is bucks only and we have antler restriction here. the second week is both buck and does. usually by the first week most of the bigger bucks are shot. the rest start moving at night. as for me ill take a buck if given the chance, but will not pass up a doe during the second week. as for eating vension, ill take a doe anytime.

If you are a meat hunter then of course you will shoot a big buck if you can. An 8 pt buck around here can be 180 pounds. Compare that to a 110 pound doe or spike, or even two or three fawn does. That is not being hypocritical, it just makes sense. Big buck, more meat. If a guys following the laws, trophy hunter or meat & trophy hunter, or strictly a meat hunter, then it is his or her business. To me, the whole hunting thing is part of my heritage - a carryover from days where people hunted for meat, because they had to if they wanted to eat. So it has a special significance that way to me, even though I do not need to hunt so the family could eat like my father did many years ago when I was a small child.

Been fishing for a couple days.....just now reading some of the posts here. Didn't mean to cause any hard feelings and I certainly did not call anyone a liar. The written word will always leave a lot to be desired... Just thought I'd throw out a topic for some debate.

Obviously, I can only speak for the people I know and what I've personally seen. If people around here shot the first legal animal they saw, their hunting season would be over in less than an hour...we're very fortunate to have the quality of hunting that we do. For me, it's not so much the size of the headgear but the challenge of matching wits with a wise old buck. When antlerless tags are available, I'll take as many as I can use. This year there are no antleress tags available because of EHD hitting here so hard, a couple of tough winters, etc. Except for predators, I will not kill something I can't eat and I only shoot those (talking coyotes here) is because the landowners ask me to shoot any I see.... We have a real problem with them out this way.

Hunting means different things to different people. For some it is for the meat, for some it's getting together with old friends, spending time in the field with their kids, etc. For others It's about the headgear. I agree 100% that the whole hunting for headgear thing has really gotten out of hand. Too much emphasis on headgear and not enough on enjoying the outdoors in my opinion. My son and I are going back to Vermont this fall to go to deer camp with the family.. I've not hunted Vermont since I moved to Montana in 1977. Anyone who lives or hunts in Vermont knows you don't go there to kill a buck with a big rack!!! For me it's all about hunting with the relatives, showing my son where my Dad and I hunted when I was a kid, etc...

The one thing I will say is whether you hunt primarily for the meat or some other reason, get out there and do it.....drag your kids away from their video games and phones and get them outdoors!!!

And good luck to all this fall.....

I have a set of twin grandsons. When their mom and dad say "lets go to gramp's house", no matter what video game or whatever they are playing or doing, they trow it down and the race is on to the car. One of their favorite lines to their friends is, "why play shooter games on a video game when we can go to gramp's and shoot REAL guns!" Raised all my kids in the outdoors and my kids are raising theirs to do the same. I guess it helps when gramp's has an arsenal that would rival the National Guards :) Well, when I can keep my kid's grubby hands off me damn rifles that is :) Little thieves :)

YOU CAN DO BOTH!

To each their own really, but honestly, is any trophy hunter not also a meat hunter by default?
A meat hunter is only hunting for meat/food,
a Trophy hunter is hunting for something he'd be proud to mount/take etc... and will also be eating.
It seems as if the term trophy hunter nowadays comes off as a poacher who shoots an animal, takes the head and leaves the carcass, which I doubt is most trophy hunters.

Also circumstances are everything, a guy from the midwest or east coast heading to hunt out west for deer, elk etc... spending thousands of dollars, does he want to shoot the first dink/meat animal he sees? possibly, but probably not.

When a non-res is paying $900 for an elk tag, what's that elk meat come to per pound? probably more than filet Mignon, he'd be better off staying home and buying steak.

But a local buying a $19 tag, and meat is the priority.

Different strokes for different folks.

This won't ever be resolved, so discussing it and pretending that the debate is fruitful is largely foolish, but he11, I can't sleep anyway...

I fed myself for a number of years on cattle and chicken I raised and deer (and small game) I hunted. Even during that time, if I could happen to take a big buck, I would. Still do.

Maybe I'm fortunate in the area I hunt. I have the luxury of being able to fill my tags on a rule that if it's not over 200lbs, there's more meat to be had elsewhere, and I let them walk. I have a few areas where overpopulated herds have been an issue for crop damage, and I do cull doe from those areas, but I can really do that any time of year on damage permits. Where I hunt, there are young doe, young bucks, old doe, and old bucks. I don't have to live by a "8point or bigger" rule of thumb, because any given year, I have a bunch of 8's or higher that would go over 130", and I let them walk. They're also generally in the 175-200lb class. The ones I shoot tend to walk at 250+, and are 9-13pt in the 150-170" class. I go without bucks on a lot of seasons because I don't get a shot on the one or two bucks I wanted. For example, I ate doe all spring because I never got a shot on the 11pt I wanted. This year he's back, picked up two kickers and two non-typical spur points off of his main beam. He's 6 or 7yrs old, and he's the second biggest body I have ever seen on my property, the largest being the 315-330lb calc'd weight buck I took a few years ago there. He'll put half again more meat on my table than any doe on my property this year. My "back up buck" is an 11pt that is almost as large in body, but not nearly as heavy in the rack, with a lot more standard typical rack, but still over the 150" mark. I have two or three other bucks on other properties that I think would break 200lbs, but if I let them go another year or two, they'll get bigger racks and bigger bodies.

So I suppose the point I'm making is that I hunt specifically for large bags of meat, and the biggest bags I have on my properties also happen to have big hood ornaments. If I can't get the biggest bucks, then I take th biggest doe (multiple) and let anything young survive.

I don't have the burden of picking between a 150lb doe and a 125lb greyhound with an 8pt rack. My big meat deer are also big wall hangers. The fact that I've fostered successfully sustained herds for over 15yrs on a couple of my properties that will throw animals of that quality makes me think that I'm not chasing the wrong ideas.

I will say when I spent more time fishing I used to find deer in the water all the time with the headgear cut off and the back straps/tenderloin cut out and the rest of the animal left. I am sure some of these folk call themselves trophy hunters but I think of them as unethical hunters. Too much waste.

For myself I will shoot deer for the meat, now giving the option with several deer in a field or something I may try for the bigger one if I think it is an option. This doesn't mean I am looking at head gear I am just looking at the body and weight of the deer. I do the same with does. If early season is going good I then may spend my time looking into one particular deer as I enjoy the challenge of trying to kill one deer in particular, but I am not that dedicated and will take a great looking deer no matter what.

Also they all look pretty good most of the time.

I hunt for the meat but have no problem if someone wants to shot because of antler size. What I do have problems with are those who set out to change regulations so that ALL hunters are restricted to what they can shoot. Game Departments statewide should be managing for quantity and not antler size. Setting regulations so that only a certain size antlered deer can be taken is telling all hunters that just want the meat that they must conform to a much smaller group of trophy hunters. And that should not be so. TV shows are now to the point that it indicates that if you are not looking for a 14 point huge deer then you are not a true hunter. Regulations and the hunting mentality needs to go back to harvesting for the table not the wall.

Yep, what he said

Do they do that strictly to accommodate trophy hunters? I mean it can't hurt to let the herd actually develop some mature male deer right?

I'm just curious as I have no experience with large scale point restrictions. Is there a lack of doe or something that makes shooting 1 1/2 year old bucks necessary?

To me it seems like a reasonable means to help/allow mother nature to pass on stronger genetics. Not just antler genetics but health genetics. You know by allowing mother nature to have a few years to weed out inferior genetics.

I personally don't really care about large scale antler restrictions as I'm after the ones that always get away. Letting them all get away would IMO take the appeal of the challenge away but I have to think its good for the herd to allow bucks to gain a little age and give mother nature a chance to do her thing.

Age restrictions would be far more effective but I think that is probably very unrealistic on a large scale. That is how I do it on my farms.

I have heard some states have moved to a new method in determining a deer herds health and that is a proper age structure. Was told it used to be determined by the number of deer period but over the years many biologist felt that if you had a poor year or two of recruiting then the herd can become endangered of a collapse or not looking healthy. This led them to come up with a new method to have a herd that represents adequate numbers in each year range. Problem I think is that antler restrictions and other things like no doe tags, you are making younger deer off limit list which does nobody any good.

Logic would say that it would make sense to develop mature deer, male and female, but there are never any age restrictions, just antler point restrictions so I would say yes, to accommodate trophy hunters they restrict what other hunters can shoot.

It is no more necessary to shoot a 6.5 year old buck than it is to shoot a 1.5 year old buck. A person should be able to shoot whatever age range they want unless there are solid management reasons for an age restriction.

I agree with the reasonableness of passing on stronger health genetics but that would mean managing age of bucks and does.

Yes, I agree, if there are any restrictions then they should be related to age. Unfortunately they are always related to rack size to aid trophy hunters and restricting non-trophy hunters.

Agreed! Very good post.