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Notorious, thoughtless is just as stupid as selfish. Your way of hunting is for you, to trying to impose it on others just so you can fulfill your goal is selfish and thoughtless and does not contribute to anything to the continuation of hunting. You are no better than the guy who shoots a six point and he paid the same for his license as you did. Most people are involved in sport hunting, some are involved in trophy hunting, there is room for both, so long as people like you stop trying to force their will on others. If you want to hunt for exceptional racked deer, have a ball good on you, I will not take exception to that. However, what I take exception to is the superior attitude exhibited in your posts toward those who do not hunt to your standards. To that end, mind your own freaking business about what others shoot so long as they are legal.
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Originally Posted by NotoriousBRT
(Post 4222940)
Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Apparently I struck a nerve with the word selfish, though perhaps "thoughtless" would have been more descriptive. Most simply give no thought to what that 1 1/2 year old buck would have been, or all the offspring he would have produced in the ruts he will never see.
Oldtimr: Yes, a buck carries the same genes his entire life, but how many ruts has the 1 1/2 year old been through, versus if he had lived to 5 1/2? Flags: You may very well have more hunting experience than me, it doesn't mean I'm stupid or that I am wrong. After some research, I find that this is not the first vitriolic rant you have made against anyone who doesn't hunt only for meat. I don't necessarily believe that a one buck limit is the answer, though I have personally witnessed the dramatic improvement in deer quality in Middle Tennessee in the last decade or so since TWRA started cutting back the buck limit. I can remember in the 90's and early 2000's, when the limit was something like 7 bucks, everyone around killed a truck load of scrub bucks and strutted around like they were some great white hunter. It was awful. I can remember someone killing a six point buck and them thinking it was something special. These were not novice hunters, either. Kentucky has had good luck with a one buck limit it seems. Dad killed a B&C non-typical (scored 211) in South Central Kentucky in 1987, and then a solid 140 inch 8 point in 89 or 90. Such bucks were practically nonexistent in Middle Tennessee at that time, and are still rare, though I am seeing a considerable uptick in the number of 8 point bucks running around lately. I'm not sure we'll ever see deer in Eastern Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky for that matter, like we do in the more western portions. The terrain is rugged and there is a lack of agriculture in the east, and the deer just never seemed to take hold there quite like they did in other places. |
Originally Posted by woodenb14
(Post 4222894)
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then. "
Theses are the kinds of statements that make this forum unbearable at times. If you haven't killed 68 different species like ol flags has, your opinion means nothing. I think it would have been much easier to type "agree to disagree" than post that diatribe. My reference to my hunting experience was in response to someone inferring that I "don't care" about the game and that my hunting for meat is somehow inferior to his hunting for antlers. But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad. |
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then"
"But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad." Yea, I don't think you seem to be the type of person that can hold a civilized dialogue online. Take your ball and go home, pal. |
I'm just curious moderators is it ok for all of us to call people dense whenever we want? Can we all break the forum rules on a regular basis and you just edit our post for us?
I mean I feel like I'm following a different set of rules here. Can I also break the forum rules over and over and over if I want or do some get special treatment? 12. "While we encourage lively debate, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Any person attacking another forum member will receive a warning and have their message removed. Any future incident thereafter will result in that member being removed from the forum" Do we have to follow this rule or no? |
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown. |
Originally Posted by rockport
(Post 4218118)
That is what stands out the most from the age management program I use, We really have a great diversity of age in the herd.
It also helps with blood lines as those young bucks disperse. I just don't know how you execute that kind of plan on a large scale. Antler restriction may be the best realistic plan. Go,... hunt,... be happy.... But just for giggles lets say, hypothetically, that 8 points or better is the magic number. I guess it's acceptable to risk letting folks high grade any 1.5 to 2.5 years old 8 point bucks , that could actually be carrying the genetics to produce what your after, so long as they are restricted from shooting those ("sub par"~sarc~) 6 pointers that could be 4.5+ year old breeders. |
Originally Posted by tndrbstr
(Post 4222995)
Well if it's working for you then why are you worried about the way everyone else wants to hunt?
Go,... hunt,... be happy.... I'm not "worried about the way everyone else wants to hunt" I thought I made that pretty clear:confused0024: but I am hunting and I am perfectly happy. Thanks for the concern though. |
Originally Posted by tndrbstr
(Post 4222995)
The answer is YOU don't. If what your doing is working for you and your happy, then why are you worried about the way anyone else wants to hunt?
Go,... hunt,... be happy.... But just for giggles lets say, hypothetically, that 8 points or better is the magic number. I guess it's acceptable to risk letting folks high grade any 1.5 to 2.5 years old 8 point bucks , that could actually be carrying the genetics to produce what your after, so long as they are restricted from shooting those "sub par" 6 pointers that could be 4.5+ year old breeders. First I can't stress enough I don't care what you do. Now you are right that can and will happen. Ive seen it happen but personally I don't really see any reason to restrict unless the herd needs it in which case it really doesn't matter if it is beneficial to antler genetics. Just health and survival genetics. You know the bucks that live longer are more likely to carry immunity and such. Probably doesn't hurt to have some proven survivors in the gene pool. Plus antler restrictions also work decent on a large scale not perfect but a decent plan on a large scale. There are flaws as you have correctly pointed out but like I said it is the best plan on a large scale that I can think of unless you have something else? There is no way to enforce age restrictions so its not going to be perfect. There are herds in some places that probably need some restrictions. That is not the case in my neck of the woods as enough deer manage to elude hunter but it is a concern in some areas. While not perfect antler restrictions will increase the average age. |
Quote:
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown.
Originally Posted by d80hunter
(Post 4222990)
What a high horse statement. Effort such as what? Whatever you say it is I can do any of those things to hunt does and little bucks if I chose to. Everything except holding out and passing up non-mountable antlered deer is the only difference in strategy you can boast about to other hunters.
:) ...and what is a non-mountable antlered deer? Not sure I ever seen one. |
Originally Posted by tndrbstr
(Post 4222995)
........ If what your doing is working for you and your happy, then why are you worried about the way anyone else wants to hunt?
Go,... hunt,... be happy.... The aniti's are spewing their favorite brand of coffee at their local hotspot just reading it. Meat vs. Antlers should be nothing more than hunting style discussion that brings us together. Truth is, none of these deer are going to disappear. The large racked trophy deer will remain. The small buck killed by a meat hunter could easily mean the mature buck will breed for another season. Mature bucks still live and die having had minimal contact w/humans. Much breeding occurs at night anyway ensuring trophy future. Let's not forget every younger buck will become this eventual big racked trophy. Big racks are great provided we don't lose sight that the meat provided should be the ultimate goal. Anyone wasting meat solely for big racks violates the hunting ethics in it's purest form. Carry On! |
Originally Posted by tndrbstr
(Post 4223013)
If your gonna quote someone d80, it helps to give credit to the person your quoting. At least it helps me.
:) ...and what is a non-mountable antlered deer? Not sure I ever seen one. You must not be reading the post well enough to understand the point I made. A non-mountable antlered deer, my choice words to the person I quoted, is an small anterled deer that a trophy hunter wouldn't shoot because he is holding out for a buck with a large enough set of antlers to mount on his wall. |
Originally Posted by Game Stalker
(Post 4223032)
This general statement is true only when directed toward us all.
The aniti's are spewing their favorite brand of coffee at their local hotspot just reading it. Meat vs. Antlers should be nothing more than hunting style discussion that brings us together. Truth is, none of these deer are going to disappear. The large racked trophy deer will remain. The small buck killed by a meat hunter could easily mean the mature buck will breed for another season. Mature bucks still live and die having had minimal contact w/humans. Much breeding occurs at night anyway ensuring trophy future. Let's not forget every younger buck will become this eventual big racked trophy. Big racks are great provided we don't lose sight that the meat provided should be the ultimate goal. Anyone wasting meat solely for big racks violates the hunting ethics in it's purest form. Carry On! That is a biological reality that seems to escape an entire segment of the hunting community. Or they simply choose to ignore it. And that very laps in recognition is not only what helps drives the after market deer hunting gadgets industry along with the grow'em big seed sellers that profit from the perpetuation of that myth. But it sows the seeds of animosity towards those fellow hunters that don't buy into that particular train of thought. It's not just hunting, In my experience, tournament bass fisherman are some of the worst on voicing their dis-content with others that don't manage the resource as THEY see fit. Heaven forbid anyone that decides to chunk a couple of smallies into a cooler to eat em. These are called "sustainable resources" for a reason. . |
Originally Posted by d80hunter
(Post 4223040)
That was NotoriousBRT.
You must not be reading the post well enough to understand the point I made. A non-mountable antlered deer, my choice words to the person I quoted, is an small anterled deer that a trophy hunter wouldn't shoot because he is holding out for a buck with a large enough set of antlers to mount on his wall. |
Originally Posted by tndrbstr
(Post 4223053)
That's just the thing Game Stalker. Every young buck will NOT eventually become a big racked trophy.
That is a biological reality that seems to escape an entire segment of the hunting community. Or they simply choose to ignore it. .... |
Originally Posted by woodenb14
(Post 4222982)
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then"
"But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad." Yea, I don't think you seem to be the type of person that can hold a civilized dialogue online. Take your ball and go home, pal. Let me ask you: Has "we" ever hunted blacktails in CA? Has "we" ever hunted whitetails and mulies on the prairies? Has "we" ever hunted whitetails in ME and NH? Has "we" ever hunted whitetails on opening day in PA? Has "we" ever hunted whitetails in the swamp of FL and AL? Because I have and I take offense to another member saying: "It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can" " If just a few do it now and then, it has little effect. If everyone does it, pretty soon the whole county resembles a landfill. I don't support regulation of any size restrictions because this is a free nation, but I won't sit here and pretend it's right for someone to shoot animals they claim to care nothing about (immature bucks) because it is convenient or because they don't care about their neighbors. That is the definition of selfishness." "Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Apparently I struck a nerve with the word selfish, though perhaps "thoughtless" would have been more descriptive. Most simply give no thought to what that 1 1/2 year old buck would have been, or all the offspring he would have produced in the ruts he will never see." See, here's the thing, you can't take whatever the hunting is in TN and try and apply it elsewhere. In many areas of the country a person is limited to a single deer. In others the mineral level in the soil does not allow big racks. In some areas you can't even shoot a doe. So, every area is not only different but also covered by different regulations dictated by the individual states. So if the state says a deer is legal and can be taken then what is the issue of a person taking it? After all isn't that a personal choice? If all you have hunted is one area, then that is all you know. That is why others with more experience will not simply accept what such a hunter says. The entire nation isn't TN or TX or CA or NY. Different areas do things differently and for someone wanting others to do things only the way they do them is foolish. So, excuse me if I don't buy off on their line of B.S. As to this:"Take your ball and go home, pal" just who do you think you are? Do you have any authority to tell me or any other member to leave the forum? Are you the head MOD? Didn't think so! |
flags,
The intent of my post has little to do with this "controversery" concerning notrious' comments. "When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then" "But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad." The statements that i qouted, that you made, were simply quoted to point out what i truly dislike about this forum. That, because you (or anyone else who makes similar statements) think you have so much more experience in the woods, you are the authority on any and all matters, and any "lesser hunter's" opinions will be taken with grain of salt. So, just becuase i'm 28 and have "only" been carrying a gun while hunting since i was 10, then i should just sit back, shut up, and soak in all the wonderful knowledge that you share so eloquently? Obviously i, nor anyone who hasn't hunted as many species or years as you, has nothing to add that you don't already know. |
Originally Posted by woodenb14
(Post 4223079)
flags,
The intent of my post has little to do with this "controversery" concerning notrious' comments. "When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then" "But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad." The statements that i qouted, that you made, were simply quoted to point out what i truly dislike about this forum. I really don't care what you like or dislike. Bottom line a member took cheap shots at all the hunters that don't hunt the way he does. Even went as far as comparing those hunters to people that trash the environment. That is uncalled for I will engage people that make such comments. That, because you (or anyone else who makes similar statements) think you have so much more experience in the woods, you are the authority on any and all matters, and any "lesser hunter's" opinions will be taken with grain of salt. Again, you take it out of context. My mention of experience is because I have hunted in many different states and places. Therefore I understand that what the hunting is like in one place, such as TN, doesn't mean that is the way it is in others. You do understand that whitetails exist in nearly every state and from Canada to South America don't you? Different regions have different hunting practices and different regulations and if someone spends all their time hunting one place they tend to think that is the only way it is done. People with more experience know differently. So, just becuase i'm 28 and have "only" been carrying a gun while hunting since i was 10, then i should just sit back, shut up, and soak in all the wonderful knowledge that you share so eloquently? No but you shouldn't involve yourself in a fight directed to someone else and not take comments directed towards others personally. You chose to involve yourself. For what it is worth, I'm headed towards 53 and shot my first deer at 9. That gives me 44 years in the field in many different regions.How many different areas have you hunted? My bet is your hunting is done in one place isn't it? Maybe you should understand that others have more experience and you should try and learn a little from them. Obviously i, nor anyone who hasn't hunted as many species or years as you, has nothing to add that you don't already know. Again, you take it out of context. That's the trouble with youth, and at 28 I consider you to be youth, is that they think they know what is gong on when in fact they don't have a clue. Here's some friendly advice: Don't get involved in what doesn't pertain to you. |
And, if that were the case with all hunters, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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