Meat vs. Antlers....
10-08-2015, 04:40 PM
#61
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Maine & northern FloRida
Posts: 195
I love to hunt and fish. I hunt multiple species and harvest what I can. Do I like a big rack, heck yes. In my neck of the woods the deer population is low so any 130 class and above is something special. Do I apply for doe permits, of course I do. The doe permit allows for holding back on the young bucks but increasing the odds that you can tag out before the end of the season.
The antlers are the reward for outfoxing an old buck. Maine laws do not allow baiting for deer so you need to work a bit harder to pattern deer and understand the variation in the mast crop from year to year.
Shoot them both and and be content with each.
The antlers are the reward for outfoxing an old buck. Maine laws do not allow baiting for deer so you need to work a bit harder to pattern deer and understand the variation in the mast crop from year to year.
Shoot them both and and be content with each.
10-09-2015, 10:09 PM
#62
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6
I like the challenge of "trophy" hunting, shooting does around here is akin to shooting an old milk cow; anyone can do it. There is no challenge to it. Don't get me wrong, I'll fill the freezer, but it doesn't give me any huge thrill.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
10-10-2015, 05:24 AM
#63
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
I like the challenge of "trophy" hunting, shooting does around here is akin to shooting an old milk cow; anyone can do it. There is no challenge to it. Don't get me wrong, I'll fill the freezer, but it doesn't give me any huge thrill.
Many hunters are only interested in the meat. They aren't after "thrill". Frankly I had all the "thrill" I needed in combat and I hunt for enjoyment and to the fill the freezer.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
Maybe they don't have a lot of time to hunt so they take what they see and is legal. Where does any regulation say that someone has to fill a buck tag with an old mature buck? I believe anyone should be able to hang their tag on any legal deer they choose to. After all, it is their tag right? Why should anybody have to justify their decision to you?
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can
Who is "we"? When did they elect "we" to speak for all hunters? If I have a tag in my pocket and I decide to take a 3 point, what is it to you? Plus, you do seem to have a problem with meat hunting when it comes to bucks or you wouldn't have even mentioned it.
, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
How is this? Deer die from all kinds of things. Letting your aforementioned 3 point walk doesn't mean he will ever grow to be a monster. He could be hit by a car a week later, or killed by predators, or break a leg, or fall through the ice, or even starve to death. Any of those would still remove him from the herd. Besides how would it help pay fr conservation any more if he walked off? The same amount of $$$ goes into conservation for the tag no matter what buck ends up wearing it. $$$ is $$$ after all.
Many hunters are only interested in the meat. They aren't after "thrill". Frankly I had all the "thrill" I needed in combat and I hunt for enjoyment and to the fill the freezer.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
Maybe they don't have a lot of time to hunt so they take what they see and is legal. Where does any regulation say that someone has to fill a buck tag with an old mature buck? I believe anyone should be able to hang their tag on any legal deer they choose to. After all, it is their tag right? Why should anybody have to justify their decision to you?
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can
Who is "we"? When did they elect "we" to speak for all hunters? If I have a tag in my pocket and I decide to take a 3 point, what is it to you? Plus, you do seem to have a problem with meat hunting when it comes to bucks or you wouldn't have even mentioned it.
, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
How is this? Deer die from all kinds of things. Letting your aforementioned 3 point walk doesn't mean he will ever grow to be a monster. He could be hit by a car a week later, or killed by predators, or break a leg, or fall through the ice, or even starve to death. Any of those would still remove him from the herd. Besides how would it help pay fr conservation any more if he walked off? The same amount of $$$ goes into conservation for the tag no matter what buck ends up wearing it. $$$ is $$$ after all.
Last edited by flags; 10-10-2015 at 05:30 AM. Reason: Added on.
10-10-2015, 05:57 AM
#64
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Midlo, Va
Posts: 561
I find it interesting in this type of discussion that one side says Ok if you want to shot big antlered deer only they have no problem wih it. The just want to be able to continue to hunt for deer to put meat on the table and enjoy the ourdoors. The other side SEEMS to want all regulations to be set for large antlerd deer so they can get them for TROPHIES. They call that "quality dee management" and want all others to not shoot certain deer so they can have their trophies. One wants everyone to be able to hunt the game of their choice while the other wants everyone to only hunt certain deer that meet "their" specifications. I know which onwx I agree with but each hunter must make their own choice.
10-10-2015, 05:27 PM
#65
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6
Gonna have to reserve the right to respectfully disagree on some of your points. As I have said before many times on this forum the over emphasizing the amount of bone an a deer's head will be one of the downfalls of hunting. If the public at large thinks that the only reason people are hunting is for antlers, they will rally against it. The public can and has voted to end some sorts of hunting and they will d it again if they can. The one type of hunting that has overwhelming public support is meat hunting.
Originally Posted by NotoriousBRT View Post
I like the challenge of "trophy" hunting, shooting does around here is akin to shooting an old milk cow; anyone can do it. There is no challenge to it. Don't get me wrong, I'll fill the freezer, but it doesn't give me any huge thrill.
Many hunters are only interested in the meat. They aren't after "thrill". Frankly I had all the "thrill" I needed in combat and I hunt for enjoyment and to the fill the freezer.
That is perfectly fine, whatever floats your boat. Thank you for your service.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
Maybe they don't have a lot of time to hunt so they take what they see and is legal. Where does any regulation say that someone has to fill a buck tag with an old mature buck? I believe anyone should be able to hang their tag on any legal deer they choose to. After all, it is their tag right? Why should anybody have to justify their decision to you?
No regulation says that, nor do I believe in regulating by antler size in any case other than ones that have a firm basis in science. I do believe in controlling yourself, and not shooting the first dumb forkhorn to walk by unless it's going to cause your family to go hungry.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can
Who is "we"? When did they elect "we" to speak for all hunters? If I have a tag in my pocket and I decide to take a 3 point, what is it to you? Plus, you do seem to have a problem with meat hunting when it comes to bucks or you wouldn't have even mentioned it.
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown. I don't have a problem with someone shooting a buck to eat so much as I question the motivation behind it, particularly in states like Tennessee, where in much of the state you can legally kill 2 bucks and 312 does, 180 of which can be taken with a rifle. So why do it if "horns don't matter"? Because you can? To give the evil trophy hunters a big bird finger? So many does they'll let every hunter kill more than 300 of them and all you could find to shoot was a yearling buck? I'm no mathematician, but that doesn't add up.
, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
How is this? Deer die from all kinds of things. Letting your aforementioned 3 point walk doesn't mean he will ever grow to be a monster. He could be hit by a car a week later, or killed by predators, or break a leg, or fall through the ice, or even starve to death. Any of those would still remove him from the herd. Besides how would it help pay fr conservation any more if he walked off? The same amount of $$$ goes into conservation for the tag no matter what buck ends up wearing it. $$$ is $$$ after all.
How is this? How many meat hunters have you seen lately paying out big money for nonresident licenses? Buying guided hunts? Spending money in your stores and restaurants? This Economics 101 stuff. How many resident licenses must your state sell to make the same money they will off of one non-resident license? It takes 3 and a piece here, some places it will be many more.
I like the challenge of "trophy" hunting, shooting does around here is akin to shooting an old milk cow; anyone can do it. There is no challenge to it. Don't get me wrong, I'll fill the freezer, but it doesn't give me any huge thrill.
Many hunters are only interested in the meat. They aren't after "thrill". Frankly I had all the "thrill" I needed in combat and I hunt for enjoyment and to the fill the freezer.
That is perfectly fine, whatever floats your boat. Thank you for your service.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
Maybe they don't have a lot of time to hunt so they take what they see and is legal. Where does any regulation say that someone has to fill a buck tag with an old mature buck? I believe anyone should be able to hang their tag on any legal deer they choose to. After all, it is their tag right? Why should anybody have to justify their decision to you?
No regulation says that, nor do I believe in regulating by antler size in any case other than ones that have a firm basis in science. I do believe in controlling yourself, and not shooting the first dumb forkhorn to walk by unless it's going to cause your family to go hungry.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can
Who is "we"? When did they elect "we" to speak for all hunters? If I have a tag in my pocket and I decide to take a 3 point, what is it to you? Plus, you do seem to have a problem with meat hunting when it comes to bucks or you wouldn't have even mentioned it.
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown. I don't have a problem with someone shooting a buck to eat so much as I question the motivation behind it, particularly in states like Tennessee, where in much of the state you can legally kill 2 bucks and 312 does, 180 of which can be taken with a rifle. So why do it if "horns don't matter"? Because you can? To give the evil trophy hunters a big bird finger? So many does they'll let every hunter kill more than 300 of them and all you could find to shoot was a yearling buck? I'm no mathematician, but that doesn't add up.
, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
How is this? Deer die from all kinds of things. Letting your aforementioned 3 point walk doesn't mean he will ever grow to be a monster. He could be hit by a car a week later, or killed by predators, or break a leg, or fall through the ice, or even starve to death. Any of those would still remove him from the herd. Besides how would it help pay fr conservation any more if he walked off? The same amount of $$$ goes into conservation for the tag no matter what buck ends up wearing it. $$$ is $$$ after all.
How is this? How many meat hunters have you seen lately paying out big money for nonresident licenses? Buying guided hunts? Spending money in your stores and restaurants? This Economics 101 stuff. How many resident licenses must your state sell to make the same money they will off of one non-resident license? It takes 3 and a piece here, some places it will be many more.
Last edited by NotoriousBRT; 10-10-2015 at 05:34 PM.
10-10-2015, 06:10 PM
#66
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
No BRT, the definition of selfishness is telling people they should allow smaller bucks, even though legal to walk so they can grow bigger so you can kill them.
"It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all".
Just know that buck carries the same genes at 1 1/2 years old that he carries at 5 years old and the guy who is content to take a 1 1/2 year old buck that is legal, paid the same for his license as you did for yours so maybe the "we" in your statement above should just worry about what you take and not the legal kill of another. It really isn't any of your business if someone one who possess a doe tag takes a buck that doesn't meet you muster, perhaps they want to fill both tags.
"It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all".
Just know that buck carries the same genes at 1 1/2 years old that he carries at 5 years old and the guy who is content to take a 1 1/2 year old buck that is legal, paid the same for his license as you did for yours so maybe the "we" in your statement above should just worry about what you take and not the legal kill of another. It really isn't any of your business if someone one who possess a doe tag takes a buck that doesn't meet you muster, perhaps they want to fill both tags.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 10-10-2015 at 06:13 PM.
10-11-2015, 05:19 AM
#67
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
It's not the actions of one person that are an issue here, it's the actions of the many that have consequences far beyond any one person's little sphere of influence. It's kind of like throwing trash out going down the road. If just a few do it now and then, it has little effect. If everyone does it, pretty soon the whole county resembles a landfill. I don't support regulation of any size restrictions because this is a free nation, but I won't sit here and pretend it's right for someone to shoot animals they claim to care nothing about (immature bucks) because it is convenient or because they don't care about their neighbors. That is the definition of selfishness.
And, where did anyone in this entire thread say anything about "caring nothing" about any game animal? The fact that someone decides to fill their tag with an animal you would let walk does not mean one person cares anymore than another person. That is the height of ego to claim you have some sort of "moral high ground" over another hunter because you only want mature bucks. I dismiss that premise out of hand.
Here's a little newsflash, the individual states decide what is a legal deer to take! YOU DO NOT. Therefore if someone decides to take a nice tender young buck for meat and that animal is legal, I say let them tag it. Why not? The state has sold them a tag that says they can do so, the hunter wants the deer and is satisfied with it and the meat is utilized. I say that is a good thing. If someone like you wants to get your panties in a twist because you don't like it, then too bad! I refuse to hunt in a manner that pleases someone like you. Your opinion on the matter is just that, your opinion. But it is not binding nor does it have any validity on anyone else and for you to toss random insults at others merely shows how flimsy your platform is.
There was a time when I was all about big deer and trophies. I spent over $70K on taxidermy in my life. I no longer hunt for that reason. I hunt for enjoyment and for meat and I will take the deer I want to take without regard as to what someone like you thinks about it. To suggest that meat hunters are having a negative effect on hunting is the height of arrogance and to compare it to having everyone throw trash out their window is stupid. Of all forms of hunting it is meat hunting that has the support of the public and hunting has always been about obtaining food!
You hunt for big antlers if you want but don't you dare try to negate those of us that hunt for meat. Especially someone like me. I have hunted in more than 10 states, 2 Canadian provinces and have done 5 African safaris. I've taken 68 species of big game to date and if I want to take a young buck for meat, I will. When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then.
10-12-2015, 05:46 AM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
Personally, I don't care what people shoot as long as its legal and it makes you happy.
Me, I've shot tons of deer. Every year I'll fill my freezer with meat by shooting 2 or 3 or 4 does...and I hunt for a buck that I'd like to shoot. Some years I get one, most years I don't. I'm way passed the days of shooting any buck just to say "I got my buck" or for bragging rights. I bet I pass up 20-30 different bucks every season, hoping to see one that will make me happy.
Me, I've shot tons of deer. Every year I'll fill my freezer with meat by shooting 2 or 3 or 4 does...and I hunt for a buck that I'd like to shoot. Some years I get one, most years I don't. I'm way passed the days of shooting any buck just to say "I got my buck" or for bragging rights. I bet I pass up 20-30 different bucks every season, hoping to see one that will make me happy.
10-12-2015, 06:16 AM
#69
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 107
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then. "
Theses are the kinds of statements that make this forum unbearable at times. If you haven't killed 68 different species like ol flags has, your opinion means nothing. I think it would have been much easier to type "agree to disagree" than post that diatribe.
Theses are the kinds of statements that make this forum unbearable at times. If you haven't killed 68 different species like ol flags has, your opinion means nothing. I think it would have been much easier to type "agree to disagree" than post that diatribe.
10-12-2015, 07:45 AM
#70
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
What flags did was to address the nonsense that was posted by the someone who tried to make it look like those who hold out for big bone are somehow a better conservationist than those who will take any legal deer. It is the same drivel and diatribe used by some bone hunters to justify their insulting of those hunters for whatever there reason is, and it really doesn't matter, why they are satisfied with a smaller legal deer. He calls them selfish! Really? Why? I will answer that, so they can kill bigger deer, someone else is supposed to pass on a legal animal. I call that selfish. If a person wants to hold out for a really big rack, fine, have a ball. However don't try to demean other hunters who bellied up to the bar and laid down their money for a license the same as the trophy hunters. I suggest you go back and re-read the post that caused Flags to respond the way he did, it was because the poster tried to imply, and failed by the way, that those who don't hunt like he does are inferior hunters. All Flags did was to say when you have accomplished what he has, then maybe you can tell him how to hunt.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 10-12-2015 at 07:48 AM.