Meat vs. Antlers....
10-12-2015, 08:01 AM
#71
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 107
I just dont see what was so upetting in notoriousBRT's original post. It appears the statement that most got under flags' skin was "we prefer you didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can." Key word there is prefer. He didn't say "meat hunters" cant shoot or shouldn't shoot small bucks; he said he PREFERRED they didn't. I share the same sentiment. I would prefer hunters on neighboring properties not shoot small bucks as well, as I prefer to go after big bucks. Is there something wrong with that?
10-12-2015, 08:48 AM
#72
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
Nope, not so long as you don't inflict your desires on others which is exactly what Notorious did when he called people selfish for shooting small buck. Now if you did not get that, you aren't trying. There are a couple of others here that target huge racks, however while they talk about it, I have never seen them denigrate others who don't hold back on a smaller buck for their benefit. That is the part that ticks people off, that and the nonsense that trophy rack hunters do more to pay for conservation. If you own your own land, then you can tell others what they may and may not kill on your land, if they are hunting on public land or the land of another, so long as the animal is legal, is isn't anyone else's business.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 10-12-2015 at 08:52 AM.
10-12-2015, 09:28 AM
#73
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: e tenn
Posts: 127
I like the challenge of "trophy" hunting, shooting does around here is akin to shooting an old milk cow; anyone can do it. There is no challenge to it. Don't get me wrong, I'll fill the freezer, but it doesn't give me any huge thrill.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
I have never understood why meat hunters will shoot a young buck when they have a doe tag in their pocket. The difference in amount of meat on the carcass is negligible, and the doe will taste better.
It's not that we hold meat hunting against anyone, it's just that we prefer you, A)didn't shoot every three pointer that walks by just because you can, and B)understand that trophy hunting promotes good herd management, and it helps pay for conservation that helps us all.
Who is this "we" that you speak of? Sounds to me like you may be drinking abit of the qdma/ one buck limit kool-aide.
Come on out to eastern part of the state and deer hunt. You may appreciate those old milk cow does and three pointers a little more.
I know I can legally kill just as many does as anyone. I just got to drive 3/4 of the way across to state to be able to do it.
Last edited by tndrbstr; 10-12-2015 at 09:59 AM.
10-12-2015, 10:08 AM
#74
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
Holy hypocrisy now everybody is the victim.
These guys have went on about how trophy hunting is ruining hunting, fueling the anti's etc. yet claim they don't try to tell others how they should do it or what they should hunt.
Then on the other side you have guys that "do it for the challenge" but are also mad because its not easier?
I kill 4 or 5 deer a year usually. Generally I kill a yearling and eat it almost entirely fresh(never been frozen), I kill 2 or 3 adult does and 1 or 2 mature bucks.
I love to hunt mature bucks but the whole reasoning for that would be lost if everybody else just let them go. That is the whole point. I want to hunt the elusive animals......the ones that are big and old because they are hard to hunt. Isn't that the whole point of a trophy or are we getting into the adult era where people were raised when all the kids got a trophy?
I don't care if you let them go or not because I want the one you couldn't get not the one you let go. The rarity is half of the appeal.
As far as the meat hunter side you lumping me in with these people that hunt high fences and those who waste the meat is akin to me lumping you in with those who shoot doe out the truck window and drive off. It is you that fuel the anti fire by giving these crazies a bigger platform and trying to stuff "trophy hunting" all into one box or at the very least not specifying that what you are really talking about is an extreme minority of the hunters that waste the animal. The phrase trophy hunting has become way to associated with wasting meat when that is very rarely the case and it is you that is to blame for that not me.
I have never wasted an animal by choice, I have never hunted behind a fence, and I have never paid somebody else to do the hunting while I pull the trigger and I am a trophy hunter.
That is what a trophy HUNTER is. Find something else to call the people doing the stuff we all disapprove of and if you want a challenge hunt for bucks other people can't get instead of expecting them to let them go for you.
These guys have went on about how trophy hunting is ruining hunting, fueling the anti's etc. yet claim they don't try to tell others how they should do it or what they should hunt.
Then on the other side you have guys that "do it for the challenge" but are also mad because its not easier?
I kill 4 or 5 deer a year usually. Generally I kill a yearling and eat it almost entirely fresh(never been frozen), I kill 2 or 3 adult does and 1 or 2 mature bucks.
I love to hunt mature bucks but the whole reasoning for that would be lost if everybody else just let them go. That is the whole point. I want to hunt the elusive animals......the ones that are big and old because they are hard to hunt. Isn't that the whole point of a trophy or are we getting into the adult era where people were raised when all the kids got a trophy?
I don't care if you let them go or not because I want the one you couldn't get not the one you let go. The rarity is half of the appeal.
As far as the meat hunter side you lumping me in with these people that hunt high fences and those who waste the meat is akin to me lumping you in with those who shoot doe out the truck window and drive off. It is you that fuel the anti fire by giving these crazies a bigger platform and trying to stuff "trophy hunting" all into one box or at the very least not specifying that what you are really talking about is an extreme minority of the hunters that waste the animal. The phrase trophy hunting has become way to associated with wasting meat when that is very rarely the case and it is you that is to blame for that not me.
I have never wasted an animal by choice, I have never hunted behind a fence, and I have never paid somebody else to do the hunting while I pull the trigger and I am a trophy hunter.
That is what a trophy HUNTER is. Find something else to call the people doing the stuff we all disapprove of and if you want a challenge hunt for bucks other people can't get instead of expecting them to let them go for you.
Last edited by rockport; 10-12-2015 at 10:23 AM.
10-12-2015, 10:52 AM
#75
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
I don't know who you think lumped you in with high fence hunters but I certainly missed it. This would be the only post I saw that could be construed to include you, and frankly it did. It certainly didn't indicate you hunted high fence. "There are a couple of others here that target huge racks, however while they talk about it, I have never seen them denigrate others who don't hold back on a smaller buck for their benefit".
10-12-2015, 11:07 AM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
I don't know who you think lumped you in with high fence hunters but I certainly missed it. This would be the only post I saw that could be construed to include you, and frankly it did. It certainly didn't indicate you hunted high fence. "There are a couple of others here that target huge racks, however while they talk about it, I have never seen them denigrate others who don't hold back on a smaller buck for their benefit".
"those who covet big antlers" well that is me I covet big antlers. you lumped that phrase right in with killing sport hunting and hunting for the sake of the enjoyment of hunting.
I hope you can see "those who covet big antlers" is far to broad of a term and includes way to may good people....As well as the term "trophy hunting"
The only time you will see me telling people what to shoot/not shoot is when I get the impression that a big boy is what THEY want. I will sometimes encourage people not to prematurely hang their tag on something that is not what they really want.
I run a hunting operation and have zero restrictions. The people that hunt my properties have the opportunity to hunt the deer THEY want as deer of all ages and sizes are there but they have to do it themselves. I give suggestions and ideas but I do not hunt the deer for them.
Last edited by rockport; 10-12-2015 at 11:22 AM.
10-12-2015, 11:40 AM
#77
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
Yeah you are right, it is too all inclusive. That wasn't intended to include you, sorry you thought it was. I was pizzed when I wrote it. The problem isn't trophy hunters or hunters who target big bone, they have always been with us, generally people knew who they were, they were the guys who killed big deer, however that was before all the tv experts shows that started one segment of hunters to tell another segment what they should do. It is those who want everyone else to pass on what in many cases may be the biggest or only buck they ever had in their sights so it can grow into their idea of a trophy deer. That is what trips my trigger. Some folks just want to enjoy hunting and putting meat in the freezer and there is nothing wrong with that and when they are called selfish that is over the top.
10-12-2015, 11:48 AM
#78
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6
Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Apparently I struck a nerve with the word selfish, though perhaps "thoughtless" would have been more descriptive. Most simply give no thought to what that 1 1/2 year old buck would have been, or all the offspring he would have produced in the ruts he will never see.
Oldtimr: Yes, a buck carries the same genes his entire life, but how many ruts has the 1 1/2 year old been through, versus if he had lived to 5 1/2?
Flags: You may very well have more hunting experience than me, it doesn't mean I'm stupid or that I am wrong. After some research, I find that this is not the first vitriolic rant you have made against anyone who doesn't hunt only for meat.
I don't necessarily believe that a one buck limit is the answer, though I have personally witnessed the dramatic improvement in deer quality in Middle Tennessee in the last decade or so since TWRA started cutting back the buck limit. I can remember in the 90's and early 2000's, when the limit was something like 7 bucks, everyone around killed a truck load of scrub bucks and strutted around like they were some great white hunter. It was awful. I can remember someone killing a six point buck and them thinking it was something special. These were not novice hunters, either.
Kentucky has had good luck with a one buck limit it seems. Dad killed a B&C non-typical (scored 211) in South Central Kentucky in 1987, and then a solid 140 inch 8 point in 89 or 90. Such bucks were practically nonexistent in Middle Tennessee at that time, and are still rare, though I am seeing a considerable uptick in the number of 8 point bucks running around lately. I'm not sure we'll ever see deer in Eastern Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky for that matter, like we do in the more western portions. The terrain is rugged and there is a lack of agriculture in the east, and the deer just never seemed to take hold there quite like they did in other places.
Oldtimr: Yes, a buck carries the same genes his entire life, but how many ruts has the 1 1/2 year old been through, versus if he had lived to 5 1/2?
Flags: You may very well have more hunting experience than me, it doesn't mean I'm stupid or that I am wrong. After some research, I find that this is not the first vitriolic rant you have made against anyone who doesn't hunt only for meat.
Welcome to the site. I'm from TN too.
Who is this "we" that you speak of? Sounds to me like you may be drinking abit of the qdma/ one buck limit kool-aide.
Come on out to eastern part of the state and deer hunt. You may appreciate those old milk cow does and three pointers a little more.
I know I can legally kill just as many does as anyone. I just got to drive 3/4 of the way across to state to be able to do it.
Who is this "we" that you speak of? Sounds to me like you may be drinking abit of the qdma/ one buck limit kool-aide.
Come on out to eastern part of the state and deer hunt. You may appreciate those old milk cow does and three pointers a little more.
I know I can legally kill just as many does as anyone. I just got to drive 3/4 of the way across to state to be able to do it.
Kentucky has had good luck with a one buck limit it seems. Dad killed a B&C non-typical (scored 211) in South Central Kentucky in 1987, and then a solid 140 inch 8 point in 89 or 90. Such bucks were practically nonexistent in Middle Tennessee at that time, and are still rare, though I am seeing a considerable uptick in the number of 8 point bucks running around lately. I'm not sure we'll ever see deer in Eastern Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky for that matter, like we do in the more western portions. The terrain is rugged and there is a lack of agriculture in the east, and the deer just never seemed to take hold there quite like they did in other places.
10-12-2015, 12:19 PM
#79
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: e tenn
Posts: 127
NotoriousBRT, the buck limit went from 11 to 3 in 1999. So any improvement you interpret at the current time is a reflection of before they dropped it to 2 for the up coming season. Any "trophys" killed in TN this coming season will have nothing to do with the 2 buck limit.
A changing attitude amongst hunters in general is what has accounted for any improvement in the buck age structure. And by your own account, that was already taking place with a 3 buck limit. The dropping of 1 buck from the state bag limit will just affect less than 3% of the hunting population. That's about all that actually killed 3 to begin with.
A changing attitude amongst hunters in general is what has accounted for any improvement in the buck age structure. And by your own account, that was already taking place with a 3 buck limit. The dropping of 1 buck from the state bag limit will just affect less than 3% of the hunting population. That's about all that actually killed 3 to begin with.
Last edited by tndrbstr; 10-12-2015 at 12:28 PM.
10-12-2015, 01:02 PM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
Yeah you are right, it is too all inclusive. That wasn't intended to include you, sorry you thought it was. I was pizzed when I wrote it. The problem isn't trophy hunters or hunters who target big bone, they have always been with us, generally people knew who they were, they were the guys who killed big deer, however that was before all the tv experts shows that started one segment of hunters to tell another segment what they should do. It is those who want everyone else to pass on what in many cases may be the biggest or only buck they ever had in their sights so it can grow into their idea of a trophy deer. That is what trips my trigger. Some folks just want to enjoy hunting and putting meat in the freezer and there is nothing wrong with that and when they are called selfish that is over the top.
I just read a current affairs forum earlier(about that lion) and the crazies are lumping all kinds of phrases into the very small group of people that are just not really hunters at all.
Sport hunters, trophy hunters etc.
Can't we call these people something that does not end with "hunters"?
Sport hunter,trophy hunter,meat hunter etc. As long as we eat the meat and don't waste the animals isn't it all good?
Its just another thing the crazies try to run with "trophy hunters" they want to think that means people who want nothing but the trophy and waste everything else. That is absolute nonsense and that BS certainly shouldn't be encouraged or catered to by people that actually have some damn sense.
Amongst hunters it needs to be very clear that is not what "trophy hunter" means. Sure is does happen but its not hunters doing that stuff.