.357 mag handgun isn't enough?
12-11-2014, 07:17 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
12-11-2014, 07:58 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Darien, IL
Posts: 6,744
Alright thanks for your input guys. Much appreciated. But things got off the .357 mag subject and was drifting into a talk of what is better, why, etc...
oldtimer & topgun 3006 really gave me the supporting experiences I was looking for.
Opening day for firearm here in IL I had a nice 10pt come right up behind me to prob within 25 feet on my doe in heat scent and a quick grunt. I couldn't risk moving. When he weirded out on the scene and trotted east I rose to my feet and couldn't get a shot on him. I waited until he came across the pathway I was sitting on to move into the thick stuff. Eventually he appeared but it was quick and I hit him low in the back right thigh breaking the leg with a shot of Brenneke 2-3/4" Heavy field Mag from my H&R USH. Worse shot I've made in alot of years.
I eventually got on his blood. It was so thick in their I decided to abandon the long gun and my pack and just go with my .357 and a knife. The track was about 3/4-1 mile. I eventually found him sitting head up in a drainage in the low end of a bean field. I almost jumped in their on him and it scared the you know what out of me. He was a really big deer and beautiful there in the bright early sunlight. I went about finishing him first with a shot to the back of the neck from about 15 feet. He barely flinched. I waited maybe 5 minutes most and shot him again thru both lungs. This time he moved around a little bit for 2 or 3 seconds like maybe a horsefly was pestering him.
I was standing there thinking WTH? Maybe 5 minutes more and I shot to the heart. This time he kind of arched his back for a few seconds and returned to his position. In a minute or 2 he dropped his head giving a couple hard breaths and then expiring a few minutes later.
I tell you he had lost a lot of blood getting to where he was at. I was not happy at all with the performance of the .357. I want quick kills on all my game. I was using 158 jacketed flat lead nose rounds.
I don't see myself using a .357 mag again nor advocating the use of one.
oldtimer & topgun 3006 really gave me the supporting experiences I was looking for.
Opening day for firearm here in IL I had a nice 10pt come right up behind me to prob within 25 feet on my doe in heat scent and a quick grunt. I couldn't risk moving. When he weirded out on the scene and trotted east I rose to my feet and couldn't get a shot on him. I waited until he came across the pathway I was sitting on to move into the thick stuff. Eventually he appeared but it was quick and I hit him low in the back right thigh breaking the leg with a shot of Brenneke 2-3/4" Heavy field Mag from my H&R USH. Worse shot I've made in alot of years.
I eventually got on his blood. It was so thick in their I decided to abandon the long gun and my pack and just go with my .357 and a knife. The track was about 3/4-1 mile. I eventually found him sitting head up in a drainage in the low end of a bean field. I almost jumped in their on him and it scared the you know what out of me. He was a really big deer and beautiful there in the bright early sunlight. I went about finishing him first with a shot to the back of the neck from about 15 feet. He barely flinched. I waited maybe 5 minutes most and shot him again thru both lungs. This time he moved around a little bit for 2 or 3 seconds like maybe a horsefly was pestering him.
I was standing there thinking WTH? Maybe 5 minutes more and I shot to the heart. This time he kind of arched his back for a few seconds and returned to his position. In a minute or 2 he dropped his head giving a couple hard breaths and then expiring a few minutes later.
I tell you he had lost a lot of blood getting to where he was at. I was not happy at all with the performance of the .357. I want quick kills on all my game. I was using 158 jacketed flat lead nose rounds.
I don't see myself using a .357 mag again nor advocating the use of one.
12-11-2014, 07:58 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
It's a great cartridge, but an 1800ft.lbs. cartridge, it aint!!!!
12-11-2014, 08:08 PM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
Can you cite those numbers? I run a bunch of the buffalo bore stuff when I'm too lazy to hand press my spices, and I don't get anywhere near that much out of 45colt. There's not a single load on their website with that much energy or those velocity numbers - they don't even list a 454Cassul load that hot. The Buffalo Bore top end 45colt "Ruger Only" loads tend to ride the 1,200ft.lbs. mark pretty strictly. The 260grn Deer Grenade spec's 1500fps at 260grn, just under 1300fps,
It's a great cartridge, but an 1800ft.lbs. cartridge, it aint!!!!
It's a great cartridge, but an 1800ft.lbs. cartridge, it aint!!!!
12-11-2014, 08:54 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
Can you cite those numbers? I run a bunch of the buffalo bore stuff when I'm too lazy to hand press my spices, and I don't get anywhere near that much out of 45colt. There's not a single load on their website with that much energy or those velocity numbers - they don't even list a 454Cassul load that hot. The Buffalo Bore top end 45colt "Ruger Only" loads tend to ride the 1,200ft.lbs. mark pretty strictly. The 260grn Deer Grenade spec's 1500fps at 260grn, just under 1300fps,
It's a great cartridge, but an 1800ft.lbs. cartridge, it aint!!!!
It's a great cartridge, but an 1800ft.lbs. cartridge, it aint!!!!
Maybe I am reading it wrong
It does say (1,450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft. lbs) at the top maybe I'm misunderstanding what the charts are? this is definitely not my area of expertise.
Edit: it looks like I was reading the wrong info there maybe and 1450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft Lbs are the numbers my apologies
Still plenty for deer but I think I did misread the info.
I'm still a little confused by there information there. It says at the top of the chart "trajectory for .452 dia heavy colt .45 +p 260 GR J.H.P. BBA JHP at 1800 Feet per second.
Last edited by rockport; 12-11-2014 at 09:21 PM.
12-11-2014, 09:09 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
Alright thanks for your input guys. Much appreciated. But things got off the .357 mag subject and was drifting into a talk of what is better, why, etc...
oldtimer & topgun 3006 really gave me the supporting experiences I was looking for.
Opening day for firearm here in IL I had a nice 10pt come right up behind me to prob within 25 feet on my doe in heat scent and a quick grunt. I couldn't risk moving. When he weirded out on the scene and trotted east I rose to my feet and couldn't get a shot on him. I waited until he came across the pathway I was sitting on to move into the thick stuff. Eventually he appeared but it was quick and I hit him low in the back right thigh breaking the leg with a shot of Brenneke 2-3/4" Heavy field Mag from my H&R USH. Worse shot I've made in alot of years.
I eventually got on his blood. It was so thick in their I decided to abandon the long gun and my pack and just go with my .357 and a knife. The track was about 3/4-1 mile. I eventually found him sitting head up in a drainage in the low end of a bean field. I almost jumped in their on him and it scared the you know what out of me. He was a really big deer and beautiful there in the bright early sunlight. I went about finishing him first with a shot to the back of the neck from about 15 feet. He barely flinched. I waited maybe 5 minutes most and shot him again thru both lungs. This time he moved around a little bit for 2 or 3 seconds like maybe a horsefly was pestering him.
I was standing there thinking WTH? Maybe 5 minutes more and I shot to the heart. This time he kind of arched his back for a few seconds and returned to his position. In a minute or 2 he dropped his head giving a couple hard breaths and then expiring a few minutes later.
I tell you he had lost a lot of blood getting to where he was at. I was not happy at all with the performance of the .357. I want quick kills on all my game. I was using 158 jacketed flat lead nose rounds.
I don't see myself using a .357 mag again nor advocating the use of one.
oldtimer & topgun 3006 really gave me the supporting experiences I was looking for.
Opening day for firearm here in IL I had a nice 10pt come right up behind me to prob within 25 feet on my doe in heat scent and a quick grunt. I couldn't risk moving. When he weirded out on the scene and trotted east I rose to my feet and couldn't get a shot on him. I waited until he came across the pathway I was sitting on to move into the thick stuff. Eventually he appeared but it was quick and I hit him low in the back right thigh breaking the leg with a shot of Brenneke 2-3/4" Heavy field Mag from my H&R USH. Worse shot I've made in alot of years.
I eventually got on his blood. It was so thick in their I decided to abandon the long gun and my pack and just go with my .357 and a knife. The track was about 3/4-1 mile. I eventually found him sitting head up in a drainage in the low end of a bean field. I almost jumped in their on him and it scared the you know what out of me. He was a really big deer and beautiful there in the bright early sunlight. I went about finishing him first with a shot to the back of the neck from about 15 feet. He barely flinched. I waited maybe 5 minutes most and shot him again thru both lungs. This time he moved around a little bit for 2 or 3 seconds like maybe a horsefly was pestering him.
I was standing there thinking WTH? Maybe 5 minutes more and I shot to the heart. This time he kind of arched his back for a few seconds and returned to his position. In a minute or 2 he dropped his head giving a couple hard breaths and then expiring a few minutes later.
I tell you he had lost a lot of blood getting to where he was at. I was not happy at all with the performance of the .357. I want quick kills on all my game. I was using 158 jacketed flat lead nose rounds.
I don't see myself using a .357 mag again nor advocating the use of one.
I walked over and sure enough I hit him good all 4 times through the vitals. Very different than any other deer Ive shot with this gun/ammo combo. Sometimes they just die hard i reckon
Last edited by rockport; 12-11-2014 at 09:53 PM.
12-11-2014, 09:35 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
12-12-2014, 04:44 AM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,431
I can't vouch for it myself, but before I bought some buffal bore ammo for my .45s I did some research and went onto Buffalo bore's websight. There were lots of pics and testimonials from people who used the .45 ammo and killed Kudu, Cape Buffalo and other big plains game with the ammo and were very happy with it. As I said, I didn't see it happen, all I know is what I read in the funny papers. One thing I do know, is you do not need that much power to kill a deer and wild hogs so I sold the stuff and switched to hornady. I am not afraid of recoil, but in order to use a handgun and hit what you shoot at, you must practice, I don't believe a diet of that stuff will do my Ruger Blackhawk Bisley and good. I had to have a stronger spring lot in to keep the cylinder rod from poping out. The gunsmith who is well known for working on handguns, particularly single action guns told me he has put lots of retainer springs in Rugers for owners using Buffalo bore in ther .45s. I decided I didn't need to shoot my gun to pieces. This is from Midway USA's webisite for Buffalo bore ammo: Caliber: 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P
Bullet Weight: 260 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass
Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1214 ft. lbs
Bullet Weight: 260 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass
Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1214 ft. lbs
Last edited by Oldtimr; 12-12-2014 at 04:49 AM.
12-12-2014, 05:41 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...ct_detail&p=43
Maybe I am reading it wrong
It does say (1,450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft. lbs) at the top maybe I'm misunderstanding what the charts are? this is definitely not my area of expertise.
Edit: it looks like I was reading the wrong info there maybe and 1450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft Lbs are the numbers my apologies
Still plenty for deer but I think I did misread the info.
I'm still a little confused by there information there. It says at the top of the chart "trajectory for .452 dia heavy colt .45 +p 260 GR J.H.P. BBA JHP at 1800 Feet per second.
Maybe I am reading it wrong
It does say (1,450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft. lbs) at the top maybe I'm misunderstanding what the charts are? this is definitely not my area of expertise.
Edit: it looks like I was reading the wrong info there maybe and 1450 fps/M.E. 1,214 ft Lbs are the numbers my apologies
Still plenty for deer but I think I did misread the info.
I'm still a little confused by there information there. It says at the top of the chart "trajectory for .452 dia heavy colt .45 +p 260 GR J.H.P. BBA JHP at 1800 Feet per second.
I haven't ever fired the Buffalo Bore stuff out of my 45colt rifle (my '73 clone wouldn't appreciate that at all!), but I know I don't get anywhere near 1800fps out of my revolvers. The published ~1400ish was about right.
Even packing a boatload of H110 under a 250 XTP or 260 partition, I'm not sure I've ever broken 1500fps out of the 45Colt case in a revolver. 1800ft.lbs. is more than some of the 50,000psi factory 454 Casull loads produce (i.e. the Fusion 260's are only ~1100ft.lbs. Barnes 250's are 1600).
If such an animal existed, I'd wanna be shooting it! But if there's a way to do it, after quite a bit of trying, I still haven't found any way to get there with the 45colt case and still be under a safe pressure limit.
That chart has to be referencing rifle velocities. That'd be about right, based on the velocity increase I see in the same 44mag loads from revolver to rifle, ~1400ish fps loads from my 7.5" SBH's will run around 1750ish out of my 1894s.
Last edited by Nomercy448; 12-12-2014 at 05:43 AM.