Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
10-02-2007, 06:48 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: charlottesville, virginia
Posts: 1,732
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
haha, calm down champ....as far as saying the cousin has just as much right to hunt there as we do....seeing as how our house is on the land, we maintain it and care for all of it and when he comes he hunts, kills then doesn't process the meat or anything just gives the entire deer to someone else and when he does come over its only during hunting season with no interest in maintaining the hunting cabin, cutting firewood, etc etc...as far as saying telling people how to hunt? the newsletter said "hunting guidelines" and bud, guidelines and rules are much different (more like suggestions), but i'm sure you know that
as far as "pissing people off", i can't say that i personally use that sort of venacular, so i'll remain silent on that matter....
as far as "pissing people off", i can't say that i personally use that sort of venacular, so i'll remain silent on that matter....
10-03-2007, 04:45 AM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
i would agree it is alittle late but not impossablethey damage can be corrected might have to what a year to put the idea upto everyone as a groub effert
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
I think you are one news letter late for this to work.
ORIGINAL: bigtim6656
i would go to your grandmother and explain to her what qdm is and what it means also let he know what you wont to do and inform her what the pros and cons are if you include her in the proccess she will be more open to making some rules to the use of the land
don't just take it to your self to tell everyone what you wont them to do on her land it makes her feel unimportant and makes her think you all have little to no respect for her and "her land" include her in the proccess
also go talk to your couisn he might be open to the limits if you are the only four hunting why would you send out a news letter to everyone in your family . and you grandma might feel you are all trying to be pushing to your cousin did you include him in makeing the limits or just go tell him hay don't shoot unless it meets this list of rules . If you did that he more then likly went to your granma and said hey there trying to tell me what i can and can not kill
just include everyone when you make limits and rules for soemone elses land
but i agree with your limits
i would go to your grandmother and explain to her what qdm is and what it means also let he know what you wont to do and inform her what the pros and cons are if you include her in the proccess she will be more open to making some rules to the use of the land
don't just take it to your self to tell everyone what you wont them to do on her land it makes her feel unimportant and makes her think you all have little to no respect for her and "her land" include her in the proccess
also go talk to your couisn he might be open to the limits if you are the only four hunting why would you send out a news letter to everyone in your family . and you grandma might feel you are all trying to be pushing to your cousin did you include him in makeing the limits or just go tell him hay don't shoot unless it meets this list of rules . If you did that he more then likly went to your granma and said hey there trying to tell me what i can and can not kill
just include everyone when you make limits and rules for soemone elses land
but i agree with your limits
10-03-2007, 12:27 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
ORIGINAL: BigJ71
Yep, sounds like Granny's got her priorities straight.
Pretty presumptuous of folks to "impose" their will on others when it's not their land to do so, or their deer for that matter! Maybe Granny will wise up and see the road that this is heading down and "give"
the land to the sister! That would be a hoot!
Incredible.....absolutely incredible, people's frame of mind these days, and for what???? So you can beat your chest and say "look at my big buck"?[:'(]
I've got an idea...why don't you go out and FINDthe mature deer that are already in the woods? Kill one that Mother Nature grew instead of one you did.
Rant over....[:@]
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche
Sounds like Granny is more interested in deer hunting than Quality Deer Farming.
Sounds like Granny is more interested in deer hunting than Quality Deer Farming.
Pretty presumptuous of folks to "impose" their will on others when it's not their land to do so, or their deer for that matter! Maybe Granny will wise up and see the road that this is heading down and "give"
the land to the sister! That would be a hoot!Incredible.....absolutely incredible, people's frame of mind these days, and for what???? So you can beat your chest and say "look at my big buck"?[:'(]
I've got an idea...why don't you go out and FINDthe mature deer that are already in the woods? Kill one that Mother Nature grew instead of one you did.
Rant over....[:@]
I don't understand how you can call Quality Deer Managment "Farming" or that you are growing deer in a way other than the way Mother Nature would have.
Traditional deer hunting by traditional hunters has completely screwed up deer populations in most states dramatically where there are as many as 10 does per buck and the average age of the does is 4 years old and the average age of those few bucks is around 2 years old.
One of the main purposes of QDM is to actually attempt to get deer populations back in balance the way "Mother Nature" had it before traditional deer hunters screwed it up by shooting only bucks and not shooting any does. I guarantee that 200 years ago a wolf pack or mountain lion didn't try to figure out the rack size of a deer before it tried to catch and eat it. They sure didn't care whether it had horns or not. As a result the deer population was relatively balanced with about as many does as there were bucks with an age structure that was pretty similar as well.
I really struggle folks who say "I don't care about horns, I'm a meat hunter" and then proceed to pass up shooting a doe to shoot a 2 year old buck. I wouldn't have a problem if someone said they were a meat hunter and shot the first deer that they saw whether it was a buck or a doe, but in my experience they seem to have a dramatic preference to young bucks.
Oh well, I doubt anyone's mind is going to be changed on the subject.
Rant over...[:@]
As far as this subject, I pretty much agree with most of you. It's Granny's land and she can call the shots. You might try to talk with her about QDM and eventually she might change her mind, but for some people it is like beating your head against a brick wall.
My 2 cents.
10-03-2007, 01:04 PM
#35
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
ORIGINAL: npaden
One of the main purposes of QDM is to actually attempt to get deer populations back in balance the way "Mother Nature" had it before traditional deer hunters screwed it up by shooting only bucks and not shooting any does. I guarantee that 200 years ago a wolf pack or mountain lion didn't try to figure out the rack size of a deer before it tried to catch and eat it. They sure didn't care whether it had horns or not. As a result the deer population was relatively balanced with about as many does as there were bucks with an age structure that was pretty similar as well.
One of the main purposes of QDM is to actually attempt to get deer populations back in balance the way "Mother Nature" had it before traditional deer hunters screwed it up by shooting only bucks and not shooting any does. I guarantee that 200 years ago a wolf pack or mountain lion didn't try to figure out the rack size of a deer before it tried to catch and eat it. They sure didn't care whether it had horns or not. As a result the deer population was relatively balanced with about as many does as there were bucks with an age structure that was pretty similar as well.
According to your analogy we should shoot the first deer that comes along like the wolves and mountain lions woulld. Whether its a yearling doe, button buck, 2 yo buck, old doe it doesn't matter that how Mother nature done it.
10-03-2007, 01:21 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
Trophy Deer Managment is strictly to grow bigger antlers.
Quality Deer Managment puts a heavy emphasis on shooting does and letting the younger bucks walk. The emphasis is actually on the age structure of the deer population rather than the size of the horns.
As far as indiscriminately shooting the first deer to walk by I don't think that isQDM but it would actually be a step in the right direction from traditional deer hunting. I was trying to emphasis that "Mother Nature" did a much better job of deer managment than traditional deer hunting has, and that it is amazing how the self described "meat hunters" seem to have the uncanny ability to shoot a young buck year after year after year instead of shooting any does.
Quality Deer Managment puts a heavy emphasis on shooting does and letting the younger bucks walk. The emphasis is actually on the age structure of the deer population rather than the size of the horns.
As far as indiscriminately shooting the first deer to walk by I don't think that isQDM but it would actually be a step in the right direction from traditional deer hunting. I was trying to emphasis that "Mother Nature" did a much better job of deer managment than traditional deer hunting has, and that it is amazing how the self described "meat hunters" seem to have the uncanny ability to shoot a young buck year after year after year instead of shooting any does.
10-03-2007, 01:55 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
Well, if you want to let "mother nature" handle it ALL by herself, we should then probably ban all hunting as we know it today and never shoot another wolf, coyote, or mountain lion again. Anyone who can read between the lines of what QDM really is knows that it's main purpose is to produce bigger bucks for hunters who want to shoot bigger bucks. Trying to sell it as anything else is really not being truthful. I am glad that there are other hunters like ShatoDavis who can see it for what it really is. Hopefully there are more.
10-03-2007, 03:02 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
ORIGINAL: Steve863
Anyone who can read between the lines of what QDM really is knows that it's main purpose is to produce bigger bucks for hunters who want to shoot bigger bucks. Trying to sell it as anything else is really not being truthful. I am glad that there are other hunters like ShatoDavis who can see it for what it really is. Hopefully there are more.
Anyone who can read between the lines of what QDM really is knows that it's main purpose is to produce bigger bucks for hunters who want to shoot bigger bucks. Trying to sell it as anything else is really not being truthful. I am glad that there are other hunters like ShatoDavis who can see it for what it really is. Hopefully there are more.
Horror of horrors that a side benefit to helping maintain a healthy deer population with a balanced sex and age structuremight actually result in more mature bucks with possiblylarger horns!
What a nightmare for all the hunters who just want to go out and shoot the first immature buck they can find! [&:]
10-03-2007, 03:05 PM
#39
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
I'm lost here. Wouldn't real quality management involve leaving the really big healthy bucks with big racks alone so that they could continue to contribute to a good gene pool for a long time? Then when they outlive their breeding usefulness the coyotes can have them. Furthermore, i would think that past problems with deer populations were due to unrestricted overhunting, not the fact that some people choose to shoot a 4 pointer while others shoot a big buck, while others shoot a doe.
I don't really care if folks want to practice it or not, but when you get too preachy about it and/or try to do it with land that don't have your name on the deed you will likely get the same responses as you get on this thread.
I don't really care if folks want to practice it or not, but when you get too preachy about it and/or try to do it with land that don't have your name on the deed you will likely get the same responses as you get on this thread.
10-03-2007, 03:54 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Problem Hunter in Quality Deer Managment
QDM is not about antler size or score, it's about maintaing a healthy balanced deer population.
Most studies have proven inconclusive whether "leaving the really big healthy bucks with big racks alone so that they could continue to contribute to a good gene pool for a long time" actually results in larger antlers of their desendants or not. This is especially true with free range deer where genetics really seem to be a mystery with immature bucks traveling up to 50 miles to find a new home range.
"Furthermore, i would think that past problems with deer populations were due to unrestricted overhunting, not the fact that some people choose to shoot a 4 pointer while others shoot a big buck, while others shoot a doe."
I disagree. Every state is different, but in Texas there was a mentality fordecades that it was "beneath" a true hunter to shoot a doe. As a result, across much of the state doe populations skyrocketed and the overall deer populations skyrocketed with it. The end result was a malnourished overpopulated deer herd with a 1 to 10 buck to doe ratio and live body weights dropping under 100 lbs for mature does and not much more for a mature buck.
The state is just now getting things back on track with increasing body weight on deer and a much more balanced deer population with their habitat. I think a lot of this is due to QDM being fairly widely accepted now over much of the state and hunters being willing to do their part by harvesting does.
Oh well, I can get sidetracked pretty easy, but basically you can do a lot more for the overall deer population by creating and improving habitat and keeping the population in balance with the habitat than pretty much anything else. Letting a young buck walk and shooting a doe instead will pay off after just a few years if you can get as many people involved as possible. Mature bucks will never be easy to find, even practicing QDM, but you will have a MUCH better chance if you let them walk when they are young.
Most studies have proven inconclusive whether "leaving the really big healthy bucks with big racks alone so that they could continue to contribute to a good gene pool for a long time" actually results in larger antlers of their desendants or not. This is especially true with free range deer where genetics really seem to be a mystery with immature bucks traveling up to 50 miles to find a new home range.
"Furthermore, i would think that past problems with deer populations were due to unrestricted overhunting, not the fact that some people choose to shoot a 4 pointer while others shoot a big buck, while others shoot a doe."
I disagree. Every state is different, but in Texas there was a mentality fordecades that it was "beneath" a true hunter to shoot a doe. As a result, across much of the state doe populations skyrocketed and the overall deer populations skyrocketed with it. The end result was a malnourished overpopulated deer herd with a 1 to 10 buck to doe ratio and live body weights dropping under 100 lbs for mature does and not much more for a mature buck.
The state is just now getting things back on track with increasing body weight on deer and a much more balanced deer population with their habitat. I think a lot of this is due to QDM being fairly widely accepted now over much of the state and hunters being willing to do their part by harvesting does.
Oh well, I can get sidetracked pretty easy, but basically you can do a lot more for the overall deer population by creating and improving habitat and keeping the population in balance with the habitat than pretty much anything else. Letting a young buck walk and shooting a doe instead will pay off after just a few years if you can get as many people involved as possible. Mature bucks will never be easy to find, even practicing QDM, but you will have a MUCH better chance if you let them walk when they are young.