<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> If you don't want to hear out of stater's opinions then why are you on the internet? Go down to the local co-op and discuss deer management amongst yourselves so you can all come to the same conclusions that have led your state to have a ridiculously out of balance deer herd where hunters are actually proud to kill an immature 4 pointer. In this new game manager, Mr. Alt, you've actually got someone who is trying to improve things for you but all I hear out of pennsylvania hunters on this forum is whining because they're no longer allowed to shoot immature bucks. From what I've read on these forums the hunters of pennsylvania need to grow up and take some responsibility for their actions. QDM isn't just a theory, it's proven to work but it takes discipline and cooperation for it to work. My state is living proof that you can go from a crappy deer herd to some fantastic hunting in five years if hunters are willing to work at it. If you're not willing to then quit whining about it on the internet, just go out and shoot your midget deer.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Well said boltman, well said.

I think opinions from out of state hunters are valid here, alot of other states are already using some of these methods and are producing quality deer and their herd is healthy too. I see alot of people afraid of change in Pa. If we don't start now, when?



Edited by - fight4yourguns on 01/20/2002 18:01:13

I have been learning more about the plans and I am starting to like them a little more. I still don't love them, but they seem to have legitamte effects. I didn't feel that the out of staters should be able to tell me that Pennsylvanias deer herd is terrible when they have never truly seen it. They may have heard stories, but they havn't seen it. I have, I have watched the deer herd in my hunting areas for seven years. I think I know a little more about it than anybody who hasn't been to Pennsylvania on a deer hunt. I realize they have had the same problems and are just giving suggestions that helped out there state, but is Pennsylvania really like any other state?

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

I hear alot of talk about the juniors being cheated from harvesting small bucks. In one years time these same juniors will have oppertunity at 6-8 pt bucks, much better chances than we had of killing an 8 pointer for our first deer. I envy these kids and wish I had something set in stone that could push the odds of me harvesting an 8 pointer as my first buck kill. Also its all in how you bring a child into this sport. If you teach him restraint and explain why he is restraining from killing that spike you may be surprised how many of these kids you feel sorry for agree totaly with what Dr. Alt is trying to do. Dont forget if a child decides to take a doe as his first trophy you as an adult must boast to him or her how great a trophy that doe was and what a great accomplishment it was. I am confident within just 2 years of antler restrictions people will be feeling jealous instead of sorry for these future hunters. Remember it is change for all of us not just the juniors. Together we will do just fine. Just give it a chance.

What about the kids who don't care about the size of their first buck? What if it is a kids first year of hunting, it is the last day and he hasn't seen a buck, right before dark a small buck comes out at 50 yards. It doesn't meet the standards. Should he be allowed to shoot it if he truly wants to? I say yes, what do you guys think?

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Buck Magnet, I would love to see this put into force in Va. we have a good program in regards to cutting down on the amount of doe here, when you buy your license you get 4 deer tags, 3 either sex and one antlerless only, if you fill all of those you can purchase more bonus doe permits, if you wanted to I think you could kill as many doe as you want in a season legally, you can only kill 3 bucks though. I am not familiar with the deer population in Pa., but from what a lot of you all have said, I think if they did something similar in Pa. that Va. is doing now and included the antler rule you would in 2 years have a ton of very nice bucks there and the youngsters would be able to easily harvest their first deer with the doe permits. Like I said I would love to see Va. put an antler restriction in place like Pa. even though it would have meant I would not have been able to get my dink 4 point I got this year.

The Tazman

Hornhound

I was one of those that initially had a problem with imposing AR on the kids. That is, until I actually talked to my 12 year old about it! He's just fine with the new rules. I have always supported AR for adults but now after geting my kid's perspective, I agree that this a great opportunity for the juniors as well. I'm sure, in most cases however, that if the Dad hates AR, the young hunter will too.

Taz, my one problem with this is that we don't give out enough doe tags. Right now you buy your regular hunting liscence, then you must send in an application for a doe liscence, after that the out of staters get a chance for sending in applications for doe tags, if any are left after that, then you can send in another applications for a bonus doe tag, if those don't sell out you can send in another application for a surplus doe tag. I think that if you could get doe tags over the counter alot more doe would be killed and that would help out alot. Alot of hunters would shoot one or two does and start passing up little bucks. As our system is right now, it is pretty easy for a local person to get a doe tag, but is hard for you to get anymore tags.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

buck magnet I think you missed my point, if Pa. combined thier antler restrictions with Virginia's liberal doe permits I think everyone would come out for the better, it would allow for a reduction in the numbers of does, a new hunter or kid would be able to take a doe (actually anyone could) and the average size of a buck would sky rocket in 2 years. I would like to see it set up like that in Va.

The Tazman

I get your point, my point is that Pennsylvania should work on getting the buck to doe ratio down a little bit before trying to put the antler restrictions into place. I really wish we had a system for antlerless deer like you guys do. It sounds like an awsome one.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

PA has no need to issue more doe permits! All Pa needs to do to lower the deer population (if that is needed) is treat us &quot;Multiaple Season Hunters&quot; fairly.

I spend much more time Hunting in MD, because there is so much more I can do down there. I buy a hunting liscence, I can kill a buck & a doe (some management areas 2 of each). I buy an archery liscence, I can kill another buck and another doe, I buy a muzzleloader, I can kill still another buck and a doe! For a total in excess of 40 deer, if I travel to each of the 5 management areas, and buy the bonus tags (one required for each deer in excess of one per management area).

I know that &quot;The Peoples Republic of MD&quot; lacks a lot when it comes to firearms freedom, but they do have a large deer propulation. Is their buck to doe ratio out of wack?? I would guess it to be about the same as here in PA, in the areas I hunt in each state.