You are making GOOD points and I am starting to lean towards your ideas. I will have to think about it. One of my MAJOR problems with this whole QDM that Pennsylvania is trying to get going was the early muzzleloader season for doe. I believe the way to get rid of the does is not to have more chances to hunt them, but to put out ALOT more liscences. It is fairly easy for a person to get a doe tag in PA, but to get the bonus tag is pretty hard to do. I have applied for bonus tags every year that I have been hunting but could never get one. I think that the amount of bucks should remain the same, just put more doe tags out. This will even out the numbers after a couple years. I am starting to see your point. People do want bigger deer, bigger racks, and bigger EVERYTHING! One of my problems was that I didn't believe people would follow the rules. I guess that some will follow the rules and it will atleast help out a little bit. I would LOVE to see lots of big bucks around, but that isn't really a big priority of mine. I am also starting to think that the area I hunt, Indiana County, is a special area. I guess my previous hatred of QDM was brought on because I NEVER SAW A PROBLEM AROUND HERE! I have seen MANY big bucks in tbe areas I hunt. I can't say that I have been to every County though, so I don't know exactly what is going on in the entire state. I just see the big bucks running around my area and think that the whole state is like my area. It is fairly common to see 120" plus deer around my hunting area and that is NO JOKE. I guess I am in the middle, I starting to be passive on this subject. If it happens and it works good, if it doesn't happen good. It doesn't bother me either way.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

To all of you who hunt PA. How did deer hunting become so popular in your state? I have a friend who hunts there and the way he talks you shut down the schools and everything else on opening day. I know your bag limits are set low and I suppose that is because of so many hunters in the field. I heard that there once was a gypsy moth problem there and you could see for very long distances because of the damage they had done. I do believe in quality deer management by the way but it is hard to count points at longer ranges when you only get to see the deer very briefly or he is running.

Deer hunting has ALWAYS been a HUGE deal in Pennsylvania. We have over a million hunters out there on the first day, and the last time I heard, we had something like 1.4 or 1.5 million deer. Heck, there are stores that close for the first day around here. You can get up to a week off of school just to go hunting. Hunting is loved by a lot of people in Pa, that is why topics get so heated.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Last year we had a big buck around our area. It had at least a 22 inch spread with antlers that looked more like a mule deer's than a whitetails. It had huge forks and an eye point on each side. That deer was only a six pointer so we would have to let him walk. I've also seen basket-racked 8-points with 10 inch spreads and no tine over an inch or two. That would be legal because it's an 8-point and not a six. Where's the logic on judging deer on number of points? If I saw those two deer walking through the hemlock swamp at a good distance, I would usually take the enormous 6-point. Now I would try to count its points, come up short and try to get the basket-rack 8-point. Number of points and age don't go hand in hand.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

One problem I have with the new A/R proposal is in my area it will have to be at least 4pt. on one side or an 8pt as I look at it.
These are the same bucks that Alt has said he wants to be the breeders of the too many doe that are running around.He has stated himself that the smaller bucks are doing alot of the breeding of the does.What happens now when ONLY the bigger bucks are legal to shoot 8pt or better.How many of the smaller bucks will be running around in Pa breeding the doe as they please.
Hunters are going to have to be open mined when it comes to Alt but listen to what he is really saying besides big bucks.

I understand your point, buckhunter3, about shooting bigger deer that we want to see get bigger. I am by no means, an animal biologist, so I don`t have any fancy explanations as to why this is the way to go! One thing I do know is this...in areas where smaller bucks are allowed to walk, there are more big bucks than in areas that shoot the little ones. Texas is a great example of this practice. Heck, I hunt a farm in greene co., PA, where the land owner does not allow anything under a 140" buck to be taken, and there are some big, big bucks on his place. It will not take too much longer until one of the three people allowed to bowhunt it connect on a monster. And this farm is about 1000acres, surronded by either state game lands, or farms open to hunting. I can`t imagine what this area would be like if some of the other farms in the area practiced similar harvest requirements! Same thing on a farm we lease in illinois, no small bucks may be taken. The biggest problem we have there is keeping the landowner happy enough so that he does`nt go with the people who offer him more money than us for his ground! Huge bucks!

Big Country, You make some good points and like most hunters on here we all just like deer hunting in Pa so much that we feel we have a stake in it.I think we are all after a good healthy deer herd.Do I think the buck to doe ratio is out of whack yes I do.I don't think by selling out of doe permits in almost every county one to a person in my county will solve the problem.This has been tried for how many years now.You some how have to get permits to the hunters that are actually going out or have more time.I know of some camps where some hunters go for a few hours the first day and party the rest of the time.If they don't get a deer that is a wasted doe tag in my book.Then you have the hunter who breaks his back out almost every day and can shoot only one.You see where I am going.I have said give single and multiple tags out.The bonus tags are no more as I see.Just a thought.

Just set up the convenience store check stations. Count the amount of doe killed during the early archery/muzzleloader season and rifle season. Take the amount we want killed and subtract the early archery/muzzleloader and rifle season totals. Then you have the amount of deer left over that the Game Commission wanted killed. Give 3/4 of this amount of tags out to the hunters that did get does during the first seasons. It might be a challenge, but it would probablly work well. I know that there are probablly lots of things that could go wrong, but on paper, it sounds good.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

If Gary Alt wants to reduce the amount of does, why don't we use in-line muzzleloaders like all the other states? I'm sick of seeing all the hype for guns and ammo we can't use.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

That could work, but it won't be able to if the amount of doe tags avaliable isn't raised. The Game Commission isn't giving out enough doe tags, and they get mad because not a lot of doe are shot. Go Figure.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)