Ok, lets say that they do get the buck to doe ratio down to a "healthy" size, then the antler restrictions go away, how long until all of that work and money is gone?

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

A deer walking at 100 yards can offer an ethical shot. However, if 5 seconds are spent counting points, the deer could be angled away or behind brush. There are plenty of instances where ethical shots can turn into no shot if one waited to count all the points. How would you count them at over 100 yards? My eyes aren't that good, especially if the deer is facing the wrong way. Would you pick up the binoculars, wait for the deer to turn his head in such a way that all the points are visible, drop the binoculars, pick up the gun and make a good shot? You shouldn't use your scope as binoculars so you couldn't do it that way.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

Good post Barnes, you couldn't be more right. Maybe people in Kansas have lots of time to look at the deers antlers because it is open land. Here in Pa, we have deer walk between thickets that you can't see in. A buck walks out, gives you a ethical walking shot, but thats all, it isn't going to give you the time to count points, pull up the gun, flip the safety off, steady yourself and fire. It just won't happen.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

I am not familiar with Pa. Regs, in Va. it is either sex throughout bow season, is it the same in Pa.?

The Tazman

Taz
archery in Pa is either sex provided you have an antlerless tag for that specific county. Our general license tag is good for 1 antlered deer only except if still unused after Dec 25 it can be used for a Muzzleloader deer if you have a ML stamp.

Hey Buck Magnet, think about this...
You hold out for the bigger bucks anyway. I saw your pictures and you've gotten some nice ones. Wouldn't even your area benefit if some get to be a little older? Not just the forkhorns but also the 8 pointer that is elusive enough to not let any hunter get a good enough look at him for a shot? Some of those will be saved too. If you ever get up Cooks forest way, stop at the Double Diamond deer ranch and look at their antler collection. A lot of junky racks at 18 months become exceptional at 3 1/2 years and up. This is not meant to offend so please don't take it that way... Knowing where your deer came from (the general area anyway) the pictures would suggest that even the biggest one is probably 2 1/2 years old (yes I could be off on this from just a picture) If I'm right, wouldn't you like to see one like that a year or two older?

Edited by - BTBOWHUNTER on 01/18/2002 13:52:52

BTB, it's COOK FOREST! Just picking<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Anyone that thinks you shouldn't check out a DEER with your riflescope is nuts. If there is a possibility of shooting that animal, then use your scope to judge him! It's not any more unsafe than shooting him! By that time, you've already decided if the shot can be safely taken...haven't you?

I have been to Double Diamond deer ranch. The deer there are AMAZING to say the least, but they also aren't wild deer. They aren't being hunted and they are breed to have big antlers. The big buck I shot was aged to be between 5 1/2 and 6 1/2 years old. He was a old buck. My big 8 point with the 21 inch spread that scored in the 130 class was only 2 1/2 years old. I can see your point. These deer ARE in my area because we pass up on the little deer. That is my personal choice. I just don't think that I like the idea that their is a standard for deer. Deer hunting in my eyes isn't about shooting a big buck, it is about time spent in the woods. I can see your point. It would work. The thing is, it WILL bring in outfitters to the state. The outfitters WILL buy up land. It could be private land that you hunt on, I hunt on, longbowman hunts on, ANYONE hunts on. I don't like that idea at all. I enjoy going to private land, sitting up in a stand and knowing that there aren't that many hunters around. It is more peaceful and relaxing. If the state has outfitters buying up the land, then where will I hunt? Public land. I don't like public land. Too many people, too chaotic, to dangerous. Each post I read of yours makes me see your point a little more, but I don't know if I could EVER entirely support it. I also don't like the fact that the game commission isn't really asking all of the hunters there opinions.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Buck Magnet, you just said you hunt private land exclusively or almost exclusively. If you hunt private land and have the opportunities to harvest bigger bucks already, then what's your beef with the newly proposed system? I understand your worries about outfitter's, but the proplems the PGC is trying to fix is on public lands first. Outfitter's can't guarantee anything on public lands.

BM
I figured I was gona get corrected about the age as soon as I saw you post the cicumference on another thread. My fault for trying to judge from a photo! Private land is always a shaky situation. I've lost/gained prime spots over the years due to sales, deaths, the kids taking over etc. I hope you have your spots a long time but you are a young guy and may outlive all the present landowners that let you hunt. Improving deer quality on public and open private land can't help but take some pressure off of our sweet spots can't it? I also have a great, private area I also won't be affected by AR but it might help the public areas I know that interest in hunting around my camp has dropped drastically in the last 10 years. Why, the deer are bigger around home! You might just help make your good situation better and more secure by supporting AR and QDM. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

PS did you see how many of double diamonds bucks had really $hitty racks their first year in spite of the great food/genes they have going for them? what could that 1 1/2 year old with a 16&quot; spread have grown to?

Edited by - BTBOWHUNTER on 01/18/2002 15:03:55