il coyote

I think most of us agree on the 0-10 acre subject, so i'll leave it alone.

But where this gets interesting to me is when the fenced acreage gets to be in the thousands. I personally have never had rights to that much connected property, so area that's like 5K acres is unfathomable to me. I do believe that the deer in that area could be just as flighty and 'natural' as unfenced deer, but the main point to me is that the herd can be controlled, more than any wild herd. The overall population can be allowed the grow, does only thinned out, genitcally inferior bucks removed, and superiors introduced. Herd manipulation is what is is to me.

To me, any deer killed on any enclosure deserves an asterisk.

3Ddepression

You are lucky that you have a different word for poacher than hunter. In Sweden the word "poacher" is "thief hunter" and you can guess wich of those words are emphasized and who get the blame for erradicating most african animals and such.[:-]

I can see one reason for this phenomena to spread,in that the prices for regular hunt rentals are so high that the burden of taking care of an entire estate makes this a cheaper and more worthwhile bargain. I would maybe not hesitate to hunt withinfences if I found a worthwhile hunt. To me that could mean a large enough area, an interesting species, a reasonable price and seem like a challenge.

NY Bowhunter

Thepoint where a fence is put up to contain a deer herd. Doesnt' matter if it's 5 acres or 50,000 acres.

Gus- that's a great question. I usually ask that when this debate starts taking the "same as fair chase" turn. Some of the answers from the pro high fencers get pretty darn ammusing.

HuntinGUS

Quote:

Gus I may be talking out of my ear but I think a lot of the appeal for these types of hunts are with professionals such as Doctors, Attorney's and such that do not have a lot of time to get out but have a lot of money and want to hang something on their wall

You are probably right with that assessment Doc in regards to the people who actually use these types of facilities, but IMO this is what is wrong with the entire thing. If these folks were really true hunters they could make time to get out in the woods, heck, the Dr's and Attorney's should have plenty of money to buy there own land. I would also think they would have more time than the working man. Many of my close friends are coal miners and they work 6 days a week............sometimes 7. I can't imagine themgoing to a high fence hunt/shoot. I think it's basic.It takes a certain type of personality. Someone who wants what other cannot have........unless they too have the means and the money.


IMO high fences should not be considered hunting. A deer killed in any high fence area should be viewed differently by the public. Maybe it can be called "live game shooting" rather than hunting...........

North Texan

High fencing is almost amust in some areasto prevent the tragedy of the commons. With a high fence, you see the results of your management. Without high fences, unless you have enough land to keep the deer completely within your boundaries, you are at the mercy of other hunters' management practices. This is getting to be more and more of a problem where I'm at, as land is continually split and sold into smaller and smaller parcels, and being sold to people that just buy it for the hunting. The problems arise when everyone wants to shoot a trophy buck, and the does and spikes are left alone. Not much of a problem when there is just one or two hunters for every thousand acres or so. Now there are three to four hunters on 180 acre tracts and 320 acre tracts, and each one of them takes a mature buck each year. When I had a helicopter survey done, the population at that time (2002) was capable of sustaining a harvest rate of 1 mature buck for every 320 acres. In the late 80's and early 90's, myself and two others hunted about 1500 acres, and 12 point bucks and larger were common. This year, the biggest buck I saw was an 8 pt. that still needed 2 more years of growth before he reached close to his potential.

Not to mention, last year I saw two dead mature bucks that someone hadarrowed and lost on my property, and three (one gunshot, two arrowed)the year before. I don't know who's deer they were (wish they would have said something so we could have looked for them after they lost them across the fenceline). Wanna bet they shot another buck before season ended? And I get to suffer the consequences of these guys management just like they get to benefit from mine.

DoctorDeath

NT your point is well made and I am notposting my opinion one way or another BUT I have heard one argument agenst high fence by land owners is that the land is thiers but not the game ...some feel the game belongs to everyone and should have free range ...

dd

Lanse couche couche

Doc,

I think that you just madea very good point about "ownership" of wildlife and fencing. Furthermore,I think that if a fenced in operation somehow lost many of "its" deer because of disease, their fences would come down pretty darn quick.

North Texan

The state legally owns the game. That's how they get away with selling you a hunting license even if you are on your own property, and that's how they are able to get some of their regulations upheld. However, possession changes hands once a capture occurs. I've traced some of this back to fox hunting in England. When you shoot or trap a wild animal, it becomes your property. You are now able to exercise dominion and control over the animal.

There will always be some people claiming that something shouldn't belong to the individual, it should belong to the state. It usually boils down to an argument between the have's and the have nots.

Champlain Islander

The wild game belongs to all of us and fencing it in doesn't allow for them to leave if they chose. It is great for game management since they have a captive herd and have full control over what happens to them and how many are killed.Many of these type of game managers are involved with canned hunting which is dead wrong IMO. So for the lawyers, doctors and others with money and no ethics it is a way to bag the big one. Big freakin deal. They must be proud of their trophys. Low lifes in my neck of the woods and all the money in the world can't buy class. So build your fences and they will come since it is all about the money. I am not afraid to voice my opinion DD!

stillhunt04

Sounds like if you're going to shell out the cash to high-fence a thousand acres you might as well try and make money off of it. lol I can understand the high fencing logic on whitetails, but I think it kind of makes sense for exotics. I know here in Texas we've got plenty of ranches that will let you shoot trophy axis and fallow deer. There is the point the deer not being able to escape, but I'm not one to judge these guys. Besides, there really is a difference between a 4-5 acre pen and a 1000+ acre ranch. From what I've read and observed, deer stay within a certain area anyway, and will sometimes starve before leaving their homerange. Some of these ranches, which are a couple thousand acres, seems to probably equate to a pretty good range. But I'm not saying I support it, or not. I'm neutral. lol