Dead deer in public view???
12-01-2005 | 07:25 PM
#211
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,323
Likes: 0
From: WC FL
RE: Dead deer in public view???
ORIGINAL: RedAllison
I realize I have made alot of folks mad with this public display topic so many resort to personal attacks. In reality THEY are the ones who are uncomfortable with what they do and the image they project,but if the shoe fits...
RA
Red, if I were hunting in a different area other than my own and I was told by a hunting buddy that they did not believe in that, I would definitely respect that. If a hunteron this forum is hunting in hishome townand it is thier custom to display thier buck and the community accepts that, what's wrong with that? You're in TN, are you born and bred in TN or you just an implant? I can't believe thata person that lives in TN would call other hunters Rednecks!!!
I realize I have made alot of folks mad with this public display topic so many resort to personal attacks. In reality THEY are the ones who are uncomfortable with what they do and the image they project,but if the shoe fits...
RA
Red, if I were hunting in a different area other than my own and I was told by a hunting buddy that they did not believe in that, I would definitely respect that. If a hunteron this forum is hunting in hishome townand it is thier custom to display thier buck and the community accepts that, what's wrong with that? You're in TN, are you born and bred in TN or you just an implant? I can't believe thata person that lives in TN would call other hunters Rednecks!!!
12-01-2005 | 07:36 PM
#212
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,679
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin/Michigan
RE: Dead deer in public view???
I realize I have made alot of folks mad with this public display topic so many resort to personal attacks. In reality THEY are the ones who are uncomfortable with what they do and the image they project, but if the shoe fits...
RA
RA
12-01-2005 | 07:55 PM
#213
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,700
Likes: 3
From: Kountze, Texas
RE: Dead deer in public view???
ORIGINAL: MassBowhunter
I would imagine you'd hate to see a headline that read "Hunter works tocreate tougher hunting laws." which is exactly how an anti would write it up if they caught wind of you working with your local legislators IMO. It would be somewhat like a gun owner pushing for tougher gun/ammunition sales. You may shoot yourself in the foot (no pun intended) trying to do what you think is right for the sport.
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I would imagine you'd hate to see a headline that read "Hunter works tocreate tougher hunting laws." which is exactly how an anti would write it up if they caught wind of you working with your local legislators IMO. It would be somewhat like a gun owner pushing for tougher gun/ammunition sales. You may shoot yourself in the foot (no pun intended) trying to do what you think is right for the sport.
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Man, this is like trying to reason with my mother in law. I'm perfectly comfortable with what I do. Let's just say that I am very comfortable in my own skin.
MassBowhunter just spelled out why I am uncomfortable with what you say you want to do.
C. Davis
12-02-2005 | 06:48 AM
#214
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
Likes: 0
From: New England
RE: Dead deer in public view???
First off, I should say my post yesterday bothered me a bit. Accountability for taking this discussion should have been mutual and I pointed it towards you singly. My apologies for that. Getting back to the point, I'm going to use your last post to explain to you where I differ with you in my opinion. Perhaps from there, we both can gain value and clarity from this discussion.
I disagree with the connection you are making as it pertains to the purpose of conserving hunting. Let us assume there has been a regression in culture as you call it (I address this concept later). I do not believe a reasonable person will react the way they do when they see a dead deer for this reason. A reasonable person will react this way because they, for some reason, did not want the sight of a dead deer forced upon them and/or whoever is around them.
I hear what you are saying here. Take the demographics of this crowd and I believe you will find it divided in a few groups. One of these groups, which I believe would be the majority, are fanatics. These are the boat rammers, the paint throwers, etc... Count them out. This would be a losing battle only to result in a waste of time and resources. You have another group which is the celebrities. I don't think we should worry about them either because they will just go with the trends that match their business objectives. There is one group though that holds hope. That group is the reasonable thinker that believes there is merit in the goals of these groups because they have been led to think it makes sense. They have been provided with information that logically led him to this conclusion. For the sake of the discussion, take them out. Now we don't worry about this group of fanatics and let them be. They are not the audience. The do not exist. period. The very notion of their existence diminishes the value in what you do as a hunter trying to display a positive public identity.
Now that we have removed this group from the population, I believe you will see that the majority of the population as a whole is still intact as reasonable people. This is our audience.
Yes, I agree with you completely. Understanding your audience before taking an approach is the best way to disarm these people. We all have a defense mechanism when forced to do something. Disarming this mechanism is the answer. This gets right to the heart of why I don't believe displaying a deer is right.
No, I don't believe in your notion of postmodern thought. I do believe in the notion of current trends that come and go and this is where I believe the notion of new tolerance lies. It is a trendy topic that will continue to be thrown around in the academic environment. I have spent time with colleagues and friends at some of the top universities on the continent. If you think about it, it a pretty interesting, yet disturbing concept. My conclusions have and continue to be it is impossible to sustain such a thought process without the removal of liberties. The only way our liberties can be removed is if we allow them to be. I, personally, have much more faith in people than this. Generally speaking, I believe a person, provided with the correct information, will make the right decision. It is not that I disagree with your notion, it is that I dismiss it and believe it's existence will only be as a notion in Stanford's philosophy 101 textbook (or better yet Berkley since the contributing factor of a good bong hit is required to fully understand the depth of the topic).
For those people that cling to this notion; they are not our audience. They are the same people as those that ram boats, throw paint, etc...
OK... Great. So I ask you this... How many of these people; that you had no idea how they would react (be honest here... friends and family don't count); did you, without warning or preparation, throw in front of your dead deer? What was their initial reaction? Your tact of question and answer is, in my opinion, ideal. Educate first. Teach them how to swim before you throw them in the lake.
You know I agree with you on this. Well most of it. I'm not sure about your conclusion that these types of hunters do much more damage than those that display deer. Let's go beyond the fact that you now admit displaying deer actually does damage, which I'm glad you see and I agree with. I'm not saying to stop the public display and the impression will change. I'm saying we have an education process to go through with the majority of the population to make sure they have a positive image of hunting as an acceptable factor of society. This is the battleground. This battle should be fought wholistically, not just on one front. I don't have the information that points either way on this canned hunts from a public perception. In my opinion, it's just stupid. Anyone who does it is certainly not a hunter by any stretch of the imagination.
I commend you on your beliefs and stance. I also am of the same mindset. As far as my previous comments pointing at you, again my apologies... they were uncalled for. I only hope this clarifies for you where I'm coming from.
Cheers,
ORIGINAL: manuman
Funny--I was going to say the same thing to you. I made my point and you obviously don't concur. The only reason I continued on that vein was in answering the questions and objections you raised.I have been explaining this mind set because people act like they do for a reason, and this regression in culture is a definite factor in why people react the way they do when they see hunters or their kills.
Funny--I was going to say the same thing to you. I made my point and you obviously don't concur. The only reason I continued on that vein was in answering the questions and objections you raised.I have been explaining this mind set because people act like they do for a reason, and this regression in culture is a definite factor in why people react the way they do when they see hunters or their kills.
ORIGINAL: manuman
And it is also why I won't be bowing to the PC crowd anytime soon--my boat won't float down that river.Your dealing with people that ram fishing vessels, trash animal shelters, slash paint on people that wear fur, run chicken trucks off the road,etc.with no regard for the damage they cause or the lives they endanger---I don't know how that covering up a deer is going to have a whole lot of effect on them.
And it is also why I won't be bowing to the PC crowd anytime soon--my boat won't float down that river.Your dealing with people that ram fishing vessels, trash animal shelters, slash paint on people that wear fur, run chicken trucks off the road,etc.with no regard for the damage they cause or the lives they endanger---I don't know how that covering up a deer is going to have a whole lot of effect on them.
Now that we have removed this group from the population, I believe you will see that the majority of the population as a whole is still intact as reasonable people. This is our audience.
ORIGINAL: manuman
I think you have to go a little bit deeper in your understanding to find out why they do what they do, rather than react to a surface problem in a shallow fashion.It takes disarming them at the root cause to have any lasting effect--and that root cause is in their mind set that allows for them to act the way they do.
I think you have to go a little bit deeper in your understanding to find out why they do what they do, rather than react to a surface problem in a shallow fashion.It takes disarming them at the root cause to have any lasting effect--and that root cause is in their mind set that allows for them to act the way they do.
ORIGINAL: manuman
Postmodern thought is at the root of the problem whether you recognize it or not. Until you determine why someone acts the way they do--you'll never be able to address it adequately.
The fact that you don't grasp the effect of the most current and popular philosophy on why people react the way they do towards the concept of hunting and its place in our society, or that you simply disagree with me? I'm not being sarcastic.
Postmodern thought is at the root of the problem whether you recognize it or not. Until you determine why someone acts the way they do--you'll never be able to address it adequately.
The fact that you don't grasp the effect of the most current and popular philosophy on why people react the way they do towards the concept of hunting and its place in our society, or that you simply disagree with me? I'm not being sarcastic.
For those people that cling to this notion; they are not our audience. They are the same people as those that ram boats, throw paint, etc...
ORIGINAL: manuman
As for the ones that don't hunt and are not really opposed to it, I have dealt with scores of these people. Some may not have the stomach for hunting, but that is easily overcome with a little enlightening and careful explanation of the hunting ethic, and siding with them in their objections to the peope that hunt for 'horns' only, or the slob hunters who are cavalier in their insensitivity to the dignity of wildlife. The first question I am asked is, "Do you eat the meat?", and when I explain that that is the primary reason for hunting, I have yet to encounter a nonhunter that has a problem with this.
As for the ones that don't hunt and are not really opposed to it, I have dealt with scores of these people. Some may not have the stomach for hunting, but that is easily overcome with a little enlightening and careful explanation of the hunting ethic, and siding with them in their objections to the peope that hunt for 'horns' only, or the slob hunters who are cavalier in their insensitivity to the dignity of wildlife. The first question I am asked is, "Do you eat the meat?", and when I explain that that is the primary reason for hunting, I have yet to encounter a nonhunter that has a problem with this.
ORIGINAL: manuman
Canned hunts, the 'horns only' mentality, fair chase issues , etc.,however are sticking points for them, and what we as hunters need to address. I am not talking about the selective hunter that is looking for a mature animal, and that practices QDM, but the ones that will go to any length to pursue and even 'manufacture' a huge rack , going to whatever extreme measures necesarry, as long as they can satisfy their ego.Look at the thread about the Ebay add, and you'll see what Iam referring to. I think that these are the minority in the hunting community--but they are vocal enough to cause a bad light to be reflected on the hunting heritage.They do much more damage than the displaying of an animal. If we are concerned about an image problem that could effect the future of hunting, then it will take a lot more than carrying a tarp to cover your quarry, or to slink around as if we have something to hide or be ashamed of .
Canned hunts, the 'horns only' mentality, fair chase issues , etc.,however are sticking points for them, and what we as hunters need to address. I am not talking about the selective hunter that is looking for a mature animal, and that practices QDM, but the ones that will go to any length to pursue and even 'manufacture' a huge rack , going to whatever extreme measures necesarry, as long as they can satisfy their ego.Look at the thread about the Ebay add, and you'll see what Iam referring to. I think that these are the minority in the hunting community--but they are vocal enough to cause a bad light to be reflected on the hunting heritage.They do much more damage than the displaying of an animal. If we are concerned about an image problem that could effect the future of hunting, then it will take a lot more than carrying a tarp to cover your quarry, or to slink around as if we have something to hide or be ashamed of .
ORIGINAL: manuman
I am proud to be a hunter and a part of huntings heritage. I don't shy away from confrontation or defending what I have convictions for. Neither am I one to go looking for a fight either. I can and do address these issues fairly regularly--so what is it that I'm supposed to be getting over? The fact that you don't grasp the effect of the most current and popular philosophy on why people react the way they do towards the concept of hunting and its place in our society, or that you simply disagree with me? I'm not being sarcastic. You asked me a question and I answered. I think that you simply didn't like my answer, of which you are cetainly entitled to do.
I am proud to be a hunter and a part of huntings heritage. I don't shy away from confrontation or defending what I have convictions for. Neither am I one to go looking for a fight either. I can and do address these issues fairly regularly--so what is it that I'm supposed to be getting over? The fact that you don't grasp the effect of the most current and popular philosophy on why people react the way they do towards the concept of hunting and its place in our society, or that you simply disagree with me? I'm not being sarcastic. You asked me a question and I answered. I think that you simply didn't like my answer, of which you are cetainly entitled to do.
Cheers,
12-02-2005 | 07:02 AM
#215
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,486
Likes: 1
From: Huntsville Alabama
RE: Dead deer in public view???
Ok guys lets face it there is a great devide here in opinion .. I have to think if you were to ride through the middle of Manhattan with a bloody ole buck on the hood of your Mercedes SUV you would most likely get a lot of indignant stares and offendmost of those people ..I say an SUV only beacusemost the people in a town like that are looking up their nose so the buck would have to be riding on something high for them just to see it ....on the other hand if you loaded that same bloody buck on the hood of you ole Chevy picup and drove through the heart of Knoxville Tennessee I doub't you would offend very many there ... I think its a culture thing ...where and what you have been exposed to ... just my thoughts ..
dd
dd
12-02-2005 | 07:25 AM
#216
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
From: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
RE: Dead deer in public view???
Ok guys lets face it there is a great devide here in opinion .. I have to think if you were to ride through the middle of Manhattan with a bloody ole buck on the hood of your Mercedes SUV you would most likely get a lot of indignant stares and offendmost of those people ..I say an SUV only beacusemost the people in a town like that are looking up their nose so the buck would have to be riding on something high for them just to see it ....on the other hand if you loaded that same bloody buck on the hood of you ole Chevy picup and drove through the heart of Knoxville Tennessee I doub't you would offend very many there ... I think its a culture thing ...where and what you have been exposed to ... just my thoughts ..
dd
dd
Excelleny point Doc!. My problem with Red is he champions a law that makes it illegal to do it. He lives in TN! Maybe Red should move to Manhattan and make us all happy!
12-02-2005 | 07:36 AM
#217
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,486
Likes: 1
From: Huntsville Alabama
RE: Dead deer in public view???
ORIGINAL: HuntinGUS
Excelleny point Doc!. My problem with Red is he champions a law that makes it illegal to do it. He lives in TN! Maybe Red should move to Manhattan and make us all happy!
Ok guys lets face it there is a great devide here in opinion .. I have to think if you were to ride through the middle of Manhattan with a bloody ole buck on the hood of your Mercedes SUV you would most likely get a lot of indignant stares and offendmost of those people ..I say an SUV only beacusemost the people in a town like that are looking up their nose so the buck would have to be riding on something high for them just to see it ....on the other hand if you loaded that same bloody buck on the hood of you ole Chevy picup and drove through the heart of Knoxville Tennessee I doub't you would offend very many there ... I think its a culture thing ...where and what you have been exposed to ... just my thoughts ..
dd
dd
Excelleny point Doc!. My problem with Red is he champions a law that makes it illegal to do it. He lives in TN! Maybe Red should move to Manhattan and make us all happy!
dd
12-02-2005 | 08:50 AM
#218
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
RE: Dead deer in public view???
iallways hide my deers i have to most of the time because they are illegal and dont got tags on themespecially in the middle of julyi guessi am addicted to venison back straps and jerky but i do not wasite the animal for the thrill its for the food and healthier than store bought meat any day i am honest here more than people on here would admit themselfs i am a true hunter for the food some might well most wouldnt call me a sportsman but you cant deny me as being a hunter but you keep talking like that about your deers being seen in public guess your gonna have a new law placed on covering your game up before entering into the city limits and then who knows what will come next maybe no shooting game on public land if you feel bad about your animal being shown or seen in public its time to retire and join the rest of the stuck up high society candy arses in this country be proud of your barbaric ways we are men not candy arses that you see everywhere in this world today and yes the woman who hunt to be proud of your kill God Bless and be safe in your travels
12-02-2005 | 09:08 AM
#220
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
From: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
RE: Dead deer in public view???
Thank God for small favors
Yeah, I'm sure you guys wouldn't want any toothless, inbred, Rednecks moving in on your country Club living! [:'(] What would your wives do?
Why then do all of the Yank's move south then if it's so Bad?
Thank God I live somewhere in the middle and most yank's just pass through as they are going south! I'm not sure I would tolerate the pompass attitudes and country club lifestyle that seems to be so prevelent with you and Red!