NY Bowhunter

I've read the let em grow thread for 14 pages and haven't found an answer to my question that I always have when listening to this debate. I'm on both sides of the coin on this one. Here's how I see it and maybe you can shed some light on my thoughts.

I am all for QDM and practice it now religously when I hunt. Here's the problem I have with it though and why I can see why people don't practice it. Here's 2 different scenarios that exist with me.

Parcel of land #1:
I've hunted this piece of land that is 200 - 300 acres since I started bowhunting 17 years ago. In my lifetime I have taken 1 what I considerbig rackeddeer out of there (meaning the biggest buck I've seen in the area through scouting and being in the woods in any given season). That was about a 130" buck which aint too shabby for my neck of the woods. Since then I've been fortunate enough tohave permission granted to hunt some pretty prime land where I usually get a chance or 2 a season at the same class deer (and higher)just about every season for the past 10 years.

Parcel of land #2:
The piece of land that I mentioned above that i focus a lot of my efforts on. The land is about 800 acres and has had QDM practice for a number of years before I even got there. A lot of good genetics and management going on there and all around that piece. If the program is stuck to will continue to produce big deer.

** The difference in #1 and #2 **
For me I love to hunt #1 because that's where I started and there is just something about that piece that I enjoy. The problem with #1 is there will hardly EVER be mature monster racked bucks roaming around due to the circumstances. 200 - 300 acres is hardly enough to effectively have a management program and sure is not going to happen on this land. This peice is surrounded by 4 other landowners and hunting groups and believe me QDM is the last thing on their minds. However I still go out there and still pass on several bucks throughout the season there because I enjoy going there and it's pretty much in my backyard so to speak. I like to take my kids there because they will always see deer. Sometimes i'll take a doe out of that piece.

At the same time I really love #2 because it produces some very nice bucks and I have a great chance to score big due to the management practices of our group AS WELL AS THE SURROUNDING PARTIES!! Little farther away to get to but well worth it.

My argument/queston:
How can some people on here come out and say if you're not a QDM/ "trophy" hunter you're not really a hunter? What if people only have the opportunity to hunt a piece of land like parcel #1 described above. Would you honestly like them to go sit in a tree for 20 years and watch buck after buck go by waiting for the 1 "trophy" per 2 decades to appease your personal agenda? To me that is ludicrous. It's plain and simple unless you have enough acreage to effectively manage the herd, it just aint gonna happen with every hunting group so let it be. So be it!! On the flipside if hunting parties did have the size land or bordering neighbors played by the same rules then I would suggest or question why they would'nt implement some kind of management practice to grow some bigger racks. Maybe not even then though.
Again I practice QDM and encourage it to everyone, but the reality is there are a lot of hunters that plain and simply don't have the chance to for a variety of reasons. I wish the whole hunting world would implement a program then we'd have 200" bucks roaming the woods everywhere[:-], but it aint gonna happen in anyones lifetime. Too many different parties involved and too many small chunks of land to make it happen. But for Gods sake let people enjoy hunting for their own reasons. If a basket rack 6 pointer brings you joy then shoot it and congrats to you. If nothing short of a 150" deer does it for ya.... so be it good luck to you too. If a tender doe and meat in the freezer is what you're out there for then that's great too. If just sitting in a tree taking in nature is what you're after....... that's wonderful. Too each their own and everyone enjoy hunting for whatever your personal reasons may be.

NY Bowhunter

Ok with that being said ... could someone move this from the off season forum to the bowhunting forum before I really get annoyed?? LOL!!
[:-][8D]

longrifle1000

I agree with you, not everyone can/should utilize QDM. I personally hunt for meat. I can't eat horns. And to me, any deer is a trophy regarless of it's headgear. We tried QDM on our farm for quite a few years. It did not work for us. Mainly because we don't control enough of the land. Too many other hunters shooting at anything brown. I let the basket racks go as a general rule though, because our buck/doe ratio is way out of wack. I would much rather take a doe to put meat in the freezer. We have three does on our property now that thave thrown twins 3 years in a row each. And every one of those have been female, never a buck.So, in three years we have gotten nine more does. My goal this year is to take as many of those three older does as I can.

s. il. hntr

SAME HERE. Glad to hear there is someone besides me that likes hunting does

burniegoeasily

Ill just chime in. I always let young deer walk, doe or buck. Now if the season starts getting close to closing and I have not tagged a deer for the freezer, Ill shoot a younger doe for the meat. I have never been that big on rack managment, but deer managment. I havearrowed deer from 130 to 160 class, I see them nomore impressive than a largemature buck with a crappy rack. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate a good rack, (what man doesnt), but I am far from a trophy hunter. My first concern is to feel the freezer. As far as QDM, its for the deer, not the racks. That is my take on the subject.

bigbulls

Human beings are the only species on this planet that specifically hunt for the largest and healthiest animals. We do it completely opposite of the way Mother Nature intended it to be done.

We may have deer growing huge racks and huge bodies but at what cost? Mother Nature has a way of dealing with over populations of animals. Take CWD for example. It originated on animal farms where the animals were fed in order to grow bigger racks and bigger bodies but were so concentreated that disease began to spread. Same thing is happening to deer all over the country where there are very high concentrations of animals.

I think that one day it is going to bite us right in the butt.

tsoc

I don't disagree at all.You have to do what makes you happy and what the law allows.Obviously this is or can be a some what complicated topic.There are so many different variations or possibilities.There is land I hunt every year for sentimental reasons,knowing fully well that if I see a big buck it is a fluke situation.Having said that I don't hunt it much.I prefer to find area's that afford me a greater liklihood of seeing big bucks.All of my hunting is on public non managed land.
Who can begrudge the young or new hunter any deer that they choose to take.Or the person that has very limited time to hunt (while personally I wish they would choose to shoot a doe versus a young buck)that is their decision to make.
It will be interesting this season,in the two primary area's I hunt in New York State (my home state)there are antler restrictions for the first time ever.A buck has to have three points on at least one side to be legal to kill.There is an exception made for young hunters.I personally am in favor of it.It will be interesting to see what the hunters who are not in favor of it feel after one or two years when they are seeing some oh my god bucks running around.I will not believe differently that most if not all hunters dream of killing big bucks.The deer management tags have been reduced this year and the antler restrictions have been implemented.I lok forward to seeing how the hunters feel about it as time goes on.

burniegoeasily

I have problems with antler restrictions. It has created situation where you have big, unhealty deer perpetuationg the species. That is if there is a point restriction. If you put a minimum point restriction, you are allowing young six pionts on up to be shot, while allowing the freak, mature spikes to walk. It can turn into a catch 22.

cardeer

Confused

muley69

Antler restriction simply allow for more trophy class animals and stabilize the male/female ratio here in Montana. One of the faulty assumptions people tend to make is that the animals with the biggest racks do the breeding. In the natural world, the breeders are the toughest and most agressive animals wether or not they have a large rack. I have seen herd bulls that are smaller then the satelite bulls, for whatever reason the satelite couldn't wrestle the herd from the smaller bull. Generally speaking the larger animals due the majority of the breeding because the heiarchy is determined to an extent by what the animals see in head gear from their opposition. A spike bull won't bump with a 6x6 for a herd at as matter of prudence, however, you may find a brush bull or two that is herd master although they seem to be cheating nature. Antler restrictions allow smaller animals to become more mature. As far as QDM I feel it is a personal decesion, nobody should say what animals somebody should shoot. Hunting is very personal, and I'm not prepared to criticize some 15 year old kid over what he shot. The hunting community has many different ways to divide itself and find things to argue about, what people decide to take shouldn't be one of them.