RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

This topic is very interesting to me .I havn't had the time to scrutinize the content.The biggest interest I have is in taking this information and using it in a practical manner to have it increase or enhance the effectiveness of my hunting.
Thank you for the information!

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

tsoc,
Thank you for the reply. I would love to go further into detail on how we have taken this knowledge and made it available to enhance your effectiveness while hunting. I am affraidthat by posting that information, itwould be taken as a marketing campaign, which would break the rules of the forum use. Feel free to contact me and I can go further into detail with you.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

I'll answer if I may Stony. Timber look up Photoperiods.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

I saw a nice 8 point in full velvet last week about the Al. - Fl. line. Honestly don't know about the shedding of all the deer in question, but a pen here in NW Fl. has elk, fallow deer and some Texas genetic whitetails that have allready finished shedding velvet. We put some cameras out yesterday on a new lease. Soon as we get a few bucks I'll let you know as to their status.I will try to ask a game warden I know if he has seen any bucks that have already shed, etc.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

Timber,
The reason I was asking is: buck DO NOT produce sperm cells through the summer. What causes a buck to produce sperm is decreased daylength and increased testosterone. Some published protocols suggest full sperm production 60 days after the firstnight that has 12 hours of darkness. If this is the case and true, the peak of the true rut this year would be on or around November 25th here in western Pa and false rut in the middle of October. Buck and doe are desiged to peak out at the same times and that is why I was asking about the buck. You have to look at both animals to see when they are most likely to match up for breeding.

I think what you may be seeing is the fawns from that spring cycling and you are witnessing the 2nd and 3rd rut. This is just my therory and IS NOT FACTor I may be wrong all together on this issue.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

Lets take a look at how the estrogen secretion can be collected and how the doe are synchronized to come into estrous earlier in the year.

First, I have been artificially inseminating cattle since I was 15 years old (I’m now 34). Having been around the procedures that go along with detecting and A/I’ing a hot cow andI knew in most all cows, they secrete a mucous from the vulva when in “heat” just, as do the doe. I have A/I’ed deer and noticed this mucous that needed to be cleared before I could A/I her. At first, I was clearing the mucous and throwing in my wastebasket. Then a light came on in my head and I started to collect it. Keep in mind, that when A/I’ing an animal, it has to be in estrus or standing heat before she will conceive and a really good indicator of this is a cloudy mucous secreting from the cervix. I can get up to 50+ swabs of mucousfrom one collection.

Now lets look at how the doe are synchronized to come into heat. When we want to bring a doe into standing heat on a certain day, we insert a CIDR (looks like a tampon) into the doe’s vaginal vault and let it in for several days. The CIDR release controlled amounts of progesterone (the hormone which maintains pregnancy) and keeps the doe from cycling. Then after several days, we pull the CIDR and give an injection of hormone, which stimulates the estrous cycle. At a predetermined length of time, we know the doe will be in standing heat and are able to collect urine and estrogen mucous from her.

Here is a photo of a CIDR being inserted.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

I agree with just about everthing I've read so far. I have just one question,can you say that this can be bottled and if so how long would it last in the air.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

Recurve,
Yes, it can be bottled and has been bottled for 2 years now. Without making this into a marketing campaign, I have used the stuff and had 3 buck all around me. I was hunting from the ground the second Saturday of Pa archery. I only had four arrows. Well after about 45 minutes I saw the first buck coming in. About 5 minutes later, the second and third came in. The first buck was a really nice 8-point probably in the low 130's. The second buck was also and 8 point maybe 115". The third buck a 10 point, the one I finally got, went 123 3/8". I shot 3 arrows at the first buck about 22-25 yards. I was so excited because it was the biggest buck I ever had in bow range, I shot over him twice and once under him. Now here I am flinging arrows at the biggest of the 3, fromthe ground nonetheless, and I only have one arrow left. I hear movement behind me and there stands the 10-point 10 yards broad side. I take my last arrow and keep telling myself "take your time, make a good shot". Well I pulled the trigger on the release and left the arrow fly. It was right on target and the buck piled up 45 yards from where I shot him.

Now, was it a coincidence that all 3 buck came in 5 minutes apart or just plain ol' luck? I don't know but something was in my favor.

As for how long it will keep when introduced to the air, I have no idea. I collect it and refrigerate it as soon as I can. It is shipped in a shipping coolerand the bottle is wax sealed. I ask that you keep it refrigerated until you use it. Most urine will keep for approximately 3 months when it is kept cool, at least when we test the Ph levels this is the indication we get. Also, the collection process of deer scents really determines the self-life. If it comes into contact with the feces, it will be exposed to the bacteria in the feces and is more likely to shorten the self-life. Also, just like a gallon of milk, if you leave it sit out at room temperature, it will spoil a lot faster then in the frig. Scents, at least pure urine, are just the same. By keeping it cool it has a longer self-life before getting that strong ammonia smell and turning dark in color like coffee. Keep in mind this is not a pheromone it is estrogen secretions from the vaginal vault.

Here is a picture of the 10-point I got. Anybody from Pa knows this is a nice buck for Somerset County.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

FINALLY I get to contribute something to this site!

Our researchersdid a study last year using vaginal (mucous) secretions of does during their "prime" estrousand put it up against9 brand-name scents from Wal-Mart during the secondary rut in Louisiana on an adjacent unfencedproperty next to the research center. Care was taken as not to contaminate the areas with human scent (gloves were worn, no atv use next to scent locations, rubber boots,ect.), and the sites were randomly selected throughout the 1800 acre parcel - evenly spaced, andNOT placed next to known travel corridors or game trails. Game cameras were placed at the 10 stations - each scent was rotated among the various camera sitesevery 24 hours for 10 consecutive days by our biologists, and was "refreshed" each day (again - using the utmost care in human scent elimination)

Now before anyone blasts the results, understand that this was a research project, and every effort was made to be completely unbiased. That is why the sites were placed randomly and not next to known game trails - to avoid the chances of "false triggers" that could skew the results. The mucous collected from does was FRESH - part of a separateartificial insemination project occurring at the same facility at the same time, during the same week.

The result?

Let's just say that our particular experiment didn't turn out like most hunters would hope for - or are led to believe. YES - deer did visit the scent sites. YES - some of them were bucks.Before I post the results, I would like to make 100% sure that I post the correct information. I have the study and the results taped on my digital camcorder from the day it was presented. I haven't looked at it since -- BUT I WILL REVIEW IT THIS WEEK! I will post the results of the study as soon as I can - but I will tell you now what suprised me the most - the fresh mucous collected from the known does in estrous did not produce any more deer"sightings" than some of the over-the-counter scents. If memory serves me correctly - one of the cheaper ones produced the most sightings.

Please don't take this as a bashing of anyone's thread - just something I thought I could contribute - after all, I owe ALOT to this site and the members of it who have taught me a great deal since I became a member. I look forward to sharing this information with you.

RE: Doe's Reproductive Physiology and proper scent collection...
 

Had never heard that bucks didn't produce sperm cells during the summer. Another thing about the rut in our area is that you will see bucks actively working scrapes from the middle of Jan till late March or later. I've seen spotted fawns with umbilical cords in late Nov. We also have a very high deer population, too high.