FlDeerman

Since this is about opinons,I have gravity feeders because they are legal in my state.The deer sometimes come out when I can see them some times they eat it all at night.When this happens I find there trails and hunt them there.I also plant food plots since pine woods don't provide enough food for the deer and turkeys.If some one doesn't like this fine I didn't ask you to hunt with me.Try stalking with an eight year old!I can't belive there are still hunters so ignorant that they still have a problem shooting does.I can show you an area where the deer in a small Alabama town are about as large as large dogs,why,there are about fifty does for each buck.They still think it's a SIN to shoot a doe.

Hunting is not a sport,it's a lifestyle.

Edited by - fldeerman on 09/23/2002 22:13:27

BambiKiller223

On the subject of shootin does, last i checked, they tasted just as good as bucks (maybe better).

Now, on to the subject of baiting. Might as well throw my hat into the ring.

I think there are misconceptions about baiting. First of all, i hunt over a feeder. Thats right folks, its legal where i hunt, in fact most everybody in the area uses a feeder.

This is point number 1, in some areas hunters may be disadvantaged by not using a feeder. Now, some of you may say that a feeder is always an advantage because it brings them in for miles. Well, ive gotta tell you, that is not the case.

This brings us to point number 2, the deer would much rather eat acorns and tree buds than deer corn.

Now this brings up a question to me, if I was to plant some corn, or say hunt next to some corn, would that be any different than spreading corn with a feeder?

Really a feeder does no good if there are no deer around. Usually, it does little more than make them pause long enough to get a good leathal shot (i have NEVER chased a deer(.270 does wonders)).

I think this is a good time to clear up a misconception, that feeders are feeding year round. I dont know about you, but #1 i cant afford to, and #2 why would you want to? (now this question excludes all land management people, because i could see some good reasons to feed all year round in a management situation). Now I have never fed all year round, and so maybe i'm missing out on one of the secrets of baiting, but all i know is that mine only feeds 3 months out of the year (and it runs out of corn half of the time), and it works fine.

Personally, (now this is the serious opinion part of the essay) I do not understand why simply placing food out for the deer is any different than hunting a food or water supply. Hasnt man ALWAYS used his brain, or tools to gain an advantage when hunting deer? I mean, if we were to resort back to spears and loin cloths, wouldn't we still be creating an advantage for ourselves with the spears? Please explain to me the difference between using the animal's urge to eat, and using doe piss to use their urge to mate? Aren't these both animal instincts that we exploit to increase our chances of getting food against a foe that has better eyesight, hearing and sense of smell? If we remove all implements that give us an advantage (bows, arrows, guns, warm clothes, scent free underwear, camoflauge, binoculars, tree stands, knives) then have we not removed the very thing that puts man above beast? the ability to think, adapt, and change.

(to be continued)

BambiKiller223

(continued)

Now some of you may say im full of crap, and thats okay, cause i probably am. But will someone please explain to me the fundamental difference between baiting and any other legal method for hunting deer. Because, quite frankly, I dont understand.

(now i know someone is gonna say, "well what about drive by hunters and using viscious attack dogs and Cobra helicopter gunships, they all give advantages too." I do STRESS that i mean only legal means of hunting. Man has become such an efficient killer that we must place restraints on our methods for safety reasons and so that we may continue to enjoy the great outdoors and the wonderful flesh that is venison. If we abuse these laws and bag limits, man has the ability to make deer extinct.)

Now, let me remove my foot from my mouth, so that you may now shoot holes in my arguement.

I hope I learn something new,
Marshall


PS: define "fair chase"? sounds a little vague.

skeeter 7MM

Difference of opinions or even stating I would never is ok. When ethics are brought in or fair chase...well just not cool. To me you are snubbing those who do and myself, you are belittling my hunting abilities. Your woodsmanship is superior to mine and I have to rely on other methods to keep pace....please give me a break.

My feathers ruffled...oh yeah!

However I won't lose sleep over it, either.

You do it your way, I'll do it my way and we can just share our success together!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Redman60

Someone mentioned does - man I wish our club would enroll in DMAP and start a manangement program. Does - I'd guess outnumber bucks 15 to 1 and our club routinely shoots any buck they see. We have some either sex days (handful) which are of course very popular, but it sure would be nice if we'd lay off the young bucks and concentrate on the does for a couple of years. If they would realize the herd quality we'd establish maybe they'd do it. But a lot of the older hunters won't even consider shooting a doe.

Chipola Creek

Skeeter 7mm states, &quot;Your woodsmanship is superior to mine and I have to rely on other methods to keep pace....please give me a break.&quot;

If I were to accept such an argument then I might as well sign on for an &quot;affirmative actions program&quot; for historically disadvantaged hunters. Maybe such affirmative action breaks could include (1) disadvantaged hunters getting an extra week before and after the &quot;normal&quot; hunting season, (2) a mandatory redistribution of deer quotas to ensure disadvantaged hunters could have a chance at a bigger buck (3) Or maybe a requirement that &quot;privileged&quot; hunters would be required to pay a tax on their yearly bounty to fund &quot;deer feeders&quot; for &quot;under privileged&quot; hunters.

Then we'd have to figure out a point system for rating &quot;disadvantaged&quot; hunters based upon who hunts with a shotgun, bow, black powder or rifle; who uses climbing stands, ladders or home-made stands; and the advantage or disadvantage points for having an ATV. Of course greater disadvantage points could be given for deer per acre and doe-to-buck ratios on the land hunted. Don't forget, hunters with college educations who live in surburbs would want the largest &quot;affirmative action&quot; breaks.

Right, Skeeter...just another government handout what you really want?

Heaven is best viewed from a deer stand at sunrise in the forest

IndyHunter

I don't feel that feeders are &quot;unethical&quot;, nor do I feel they are a surefire way to harvest a deer. Do I feel they can make it easier? Yes. CAN is the key word. I would guess that it depends a lot on the area one hunts, and the other available food sources nearby. I don't hunt over feeders, and really do not have that interest. (Illegal here anyhow.) If I grew up hunting over them, then I probably would have an interest. If that is what a person does, then I don't see the problem and certainly don't see a need to bash another hunter for it. If someone would have asked me a year ago how I felt, I probably would have said it shouldn't be allowed. But i've become a little more informed on the subject from some guys on this site, and just with talking to other hunters etc. The one argument I don't buy however, is that it is no different than hunting a corn field. The idea might be the same (simply hunting a food source), but most corn fields (I'm talking crops, not food plots for animals) are not a 10' by 10' area. So if the deer do decide thats what they are going to eat, they are concentrated to the small area around the feeder. That makes it a little easier to decide where to put up your stand doesn't it? The corn fields I am familiar with are anywhere from 10 acres to several hundred. And the deer will not feed in a 10 by 10 area in those fields. Although you find a hot trail and your in business. Again, I am not bashing feeders, or those who hunt over them in any way, shape, or form. Just don't say it is no different than hunting a crop field full of corn. I would guess that you probably have to be a lot more careful hunting over a feeder though (unless there are an unusually high # of deer). You get busted by a couple deer while hunting over a feeder, and you probably won't see them again. But you get busted hunting a big corn field, then you can move your stand to the next hot trail down the field and start all over again. Just my opinion.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

kentlyone

Scence some people have problems shooting does, I guess I will chime in as well. Does need to be harvested as well as bucks. Its a simple matter of competition. An area is only going to support a certain number of deer (bucks or does). If you reduce just the bucks you are allowing more doe to consume the food. In this situation you see fewer bucks. Most people feel that if you leave the does you will increase the number of deer. This is a falsehood.

skeeter 7MM

chipola creek, what are you sniffing? I don't follow your post one bit. I was refering to this type of comment:

&quot;taking bears with jelly donuts - might be legal, but it just doesn't fit into my concept of &quot;fair chase&quot;. I prefer applying my woodcraft and hunting skills against the game on their turf without trying to reshape or alter their habit and feeding patterns to suit my advantage. Whenever we introduce artifical feeding devices or patterns or movement constraints upon the wildlife, we have effectively impeded their survival skills and made them into mobile targets on a shooting range.&quot;

My quote was in reference to comments like this, to me it is a snub or claim on my abilities. What you all think?

Indy, sure variable factors of field hunting are introduced, but it is no more natural habitat...planted means introduced. When baiting you can't just lay the slop down and expect the flood. You have to a lot of homework, scouting and know routes and winds. When hunting a field, most winds it will be accessible, but bait usually good with just one & maybe a cross. I am not saying it is the same, but it isn't as far apart as some would like us to believe.

3030win

Bambi Killer, you say &quot;deer would much rather eat acorns and tree buds than deer corn&quot; why not just hunt by an oak tree then? Why do you still feel you need a feeder if they rather eat acorns?

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.