Measuring Stick
01-22-2002, 01:33 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saegertown PA meadville,pa,us
Posts: 165
Measuring Stick
I've been a part of another thread that has had lots of action on it concerning "Is bowhunting too hi-tech". After reading all the good bad and ugly I couldn't help but wonder where the traditional people stand so here goes:
1. To me traditional means a longbow or recurve, wooden arrows, re-sharpenable broadheads, no sights and of course a finger release.
2. With no other real way to compare accuracy levels I'll use 3D shoots. I feel no traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points while using the "hunter" stakes.
Where does everybody else fall in line with this. Just curious.
1. To me traditional means a longbow or recurve, wooden arrows, re-sharpenable broadheads, no sights and of course a finger release.
2. With no other real way to compare accuracy levels I'll use 3D shoots. I feel no traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points while using the "hunter" stakes.
Where does everybody else fall in line with this. Just curious.
01-22-2002, 02:17 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California
Posts: 600
RE: Measuring Stick
I shoot a longbow and my arrows vary from aluminum to cedar to bamboo and I use Zwickey Eskimo 2 blade broadheads. I'm sure glad I'm not in the trad group. I hate to be catagorized. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I also shoot an all wood laminated self bow with cedar and bamboo.
Your 200 score seems a little low to me. What percentage of the total points do you think a stick shooter should score? Also, the only 3D in our area that I can make it to is a mixed shoot. 42 targets, 2 arrows per and 22 total points per target. That's a 924 total score for the shoot. Oh, there are no trad or hunter stakes. Open and youth only which means we are shooting open stakes at targets from point blank to 80 yards. Most are from 40-55 yards.
Your 200 score seems a little low to me. What percentage of the total points do you think a stick shooter should score? Also, the only 3D in our area that I can make it to is a mixed shoot. 42 targets, 2 arrows per and 22 total points per target. That's a 924 total score for the shoot. Oh, there are no trad or hunter stakes. Open and youth only which means we are shooting open stakes at targets from point blank to 80 yards. Most are from 40-55 yards.
01-22-2002, 02:22 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hopkinsville, Ky USA
Posts: 811
RE: Measuring Stick
longbowman, it seems "traditional" has become a catch phrase these days that I'm sure means very different things to different ppl. Does anyone know where, how, or even why the term originated? Seems like maybe a label invented to separate us from the wheel boys, & to tell the truth I'm not convinced the term even belongs in archery. But that's another topic altogether. Hehe. Anyhow, if I were to put a generic definition to it for my own purposes, it'd be something like: 'any archery tackle that doesn't make use of a mechanical device or advantage to draw, hold, or release an arrow'. As I say, everyone prolly has a little different take on this. As far as 3D scores go, I'd say that most average recurve or longbow shooters on an average 3D course SHOULD shoot an average score of over 200. There are lots of variables involved w/this assumtion tho, & I've known really good 3D shots that couldn't kill critters & vice versa. Plus there is the amount of experience of the archer, course difficulty, & countless other factors to consider. Wasn't it Howard Hill who said something about picking whether you wanted to be a target shooter or hunter, as both were almost totally unrelated? Something to that effect. I used to think that was bunk, but the longer I watch the more I see how true it can be. Please excuse my senseless ramblings, just my .02 worth. (but you asked for it) LOL!!
01-22-2002, 03:02 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: West Bloomfield Michigan USA
Posts: 262
RE: Measuring Stick
For me, Longbowman's definition of "Traditional" is a little too restrictive. It leaves out all the recurve shooters that choose to shoot carbon, aluminum, or fiberglass. It also ignores broadheads like Muzzy & Thunderhead with replaceable blades. As to 200 scores for 3D, there's just too many variables. What scoring system; IBO or ASA? What stakes; 30yrd, 25yrd, or something else? Marked or unmarked yardages? How many targets; 30, 40, or something else. How many arrows per target; 1 or 2? I do know there are mighty few members of my club that would shoot a 200 on a 30 target IBO course with 10, 8, 5 scoring at 30yrds max, one arrow per target. Joel Powell, who was a past IBO Longbow Champion, but unfortunately died last fall, once told me that to be competitive at IBO shoots he felt you had to be able to shoot at least 50% under their rules.
Jack
Edited by - Floxter on 01/22/2002 16:07:30
Jack
Edited by - Floxter on 01/22/2002 16:07:30
01-22-2002, 03:09 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Glen Ellyn IL USA
Posts: 239
RE: Measuring Stick
200 points? What the heck does that have to do with accuracy? I have never shot a 200 in any 3-D shoot. First of all, each shoot is different. Some have long shots, some have obstacles in the way. Accuracy in a 3-D shoot is not the same as hunting. At my hunting range, I'll shoot much higher than 200. Anything less than all kills at your hunting range is unacceptable. This , to me, is the only measuring stick. Dick
01-22-2002, 03:48 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Measuring Stick
"Traditional" is a relative term. Basically it's following tradition, and what is traditional in my family may not be in yours, and new traditions are developed as time goes by. I like Arrowsmit's definition of our type of archery--"any archery tackle that doesn't make use of a mechanical device or advantage to draw, hold, or release an arrow", although I wouldn't hold it against anyone who, for some reason or the other, had to use some type of release. I prefer longbows and wooden arrows, and all of my broadheads are re-sharpenable, but I won't try to place those restrictions on others.
3-d scores are not a fair way to measure, as they vary so much from one place to another. Some of the shoots I go to the members go to great pains to make the shots realistic hunting shots, and some go to great pains to make the shots a great pain! Dick said it best there--"Anything less than all kills at your hunting range is unacceptable. " For one person that may be 30 yds, for others it may be 10. The difference comes in knowing your effective range, and sticking to it.
Chad
3-d scores are not a fair way to measure, as they vary so much from one place to another. Some of the shoots I go to the members go to great pains to make the shots realistic hunting shots, and some go to great pains to make the shots a great pain! Dick said it best there--"Anything less than all kills at your hunting range is unacceptable. " For one person that may be 30 yds, for others it may be 10. The difference comes in knowing your effective range, and sticking to it.
Chad
01-24-2002, 05:25 AM
#9
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Centennial CO USA
Posts: 29
RE: Measuring Stick
Longbowman-
What does your #2 mean? "No traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points from the hunter stakes"?? For feeling good about going hunting? Does that mean carp or prairie dogs or bull elk? If they shoot under 200, do you not let them shoot any more? Take their bows away. Tell them to quit. You don't make any sense. It sounds like a clause in a new set of hunting regs, heaven forbid. I hope some deep breathin' granola head game department policy maker politician doesn't get any ideas....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I'm pretty sure, although you didn't say so, that you meant that as level of competency for hunting purposes. I much prefer Dick4bows "nothing less than all kills at your hunting range", carp excepted.
Tom
What does your #2 mean? "No traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points from the hunter stakes"?? For feeling good about going hunting? Does that mean carp or prairie dogs or bull elk? If they shoot under 200, do you not let them shoot any more? Take their bows away. Tell them to quit. You don't make any sense. It sounds like a clause in a new set of hunting regs, heaven forbid. I hope some deep breathin' granola head game department policy maker politician doesn't get any ideas....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I'm pretty sure, although you didn't say so, that you meant that as level of competency for hunting purposes. I much prefer Dick4bows "nothing less than all kills at your hunting range", carp excepted.
Tom
01-24-2002, 06:00 AM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hopkinsville, Ky USA
Posts: 811
RE: Measuring Stick
longbowman, seems like we all sorta jumped you on this. I think you were defending trad guys average proficiency & I for one, apologize for the "atmosphere" of my post. It certainly wasn't meant like it prolly reads. I just don't think there is a true "measuring stick" or that there is even a need for one. Dick said it very well, "Anything less than all kills at your hunting range is unacceptable." Some ppl will always overextend their limitations no matter their choice of equipment. See, ya can't change a guys heart w/tests, classes, measuring sticks etc & that's what it really boils down too IMO. Thanks for standing up for us longbowman!