Measuring Stick
01-24-2002, 04:10 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Measuring Stick
Longbowman (gotta' love that handle<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>), I think a lot of the responses look much more harsh than they were meant to be. This blasted screen doesn't let you see the smile and wink that you would see in a face-to-face conversation. Also, many of us have had to be ready to defend dang near anything we said on another site, where if you have an opinion of your own you are likely to get bashed, and that habit can be hard to break.
Getting back to the original question, at one of the local tournaments I shoot at, a score of 200 is well above average, and honestly I don't always break 200 on it. This is a 28 target course, scores of 5,8,10, and 12. Distances range from 15 (rare) to 35+ yds. Lots of up and down hill shots, and across ditches and gulleys. Lots of shots between and/or beside trees, through brush, and some that require leaning or sqatting or some other unnatural position. Needless to say, there are usually very few shots I would attempt on a live animal, but it sure is a challenging course! If everyone was required to shoot a 200 or better on this course before they could go hunting, the woods wouldn't have many hunters around here. I think I understand the point you were making though--there are some folks that, in my opinion, just don't have any bussiness in the woods with a traditional bow. Of course, I have seen the same with compound bows, shotguns, and rifles. You have to know your limits, and stick with them.
Ok, I'm getting off topic again. For #1, I don't really have a cut-and-dried answer. When I see a recurve with an aluminum riser that is something like 35# pull and the guy is shooting broomstraw arrows, "traditional" is not the first thing that pops into my head, regardless if it is in accordance to the tournament rules or not. I'm not really sure why--there was as much or more technology applied to the making of my longbows with their fiberglass lams, micarta tips, and Dynaflight strings. I think I already covered #2--lol.
It would be great if there was some kind of fair and accurate way to keep slobs out of the woods, but I don't have an answer. The best thing we can do is set the example, and hopefully others will follow.
Done rambling for now.
Chad
Long Bows Rule!
Getting back to the original question, at one of the local tournaments I shoot at, a score of 200 is well above average, and honestly I don't always break 200 on it. This is a 28 target course, scores of 5,8,10, and 12. Distances range from 15 (rare) to 35+ yds. Lots of up and down hill shots, and across ditches and gulleys. Lots of shots between and/or beside trees, through brush, and some that require leaning or sqatting or some other unnatural position. Needless to say, there are usually very few shots I would attempt on a live animal, but it sure is a challenging course! If everyone was required to shoot a 200 or better on this course before they could go hunting, the woods wouldn't have many hunters around here. I think I understand the point you were making though--there are some folks that, in my opinion, just don't have any bussiness in the woods with a traditional bow. Of course, I have seen the same with compound bows, shotguns, and rifles. You have to know your limits, and stick with them.
Ok, I'm getting off topic again. For #1, I don't really have a cut-and-dried answer. When I see a recurve with an aluminum riser that is something like 35# pull and the guy is shooting broomstraw arrows, "traditional" is not the first thing that pops into my head, regardless if it is in accordance to the tournament rules or not. I'm not really sure why--there was as much or more technology applied to the making of my longbows with their fiberglass lams, micarta tips, and Dynaflight strings. I think I already covered #2--lol.
It would be great if there was some kind of fair and accurate way to keep slobs out of the woods, but I don't have an answer. The best thing we can do is set the example, and hopefully others will follow.
Done rambling for now.
Chad
Long Bows Rule!
01-24-2002, 08:29 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saegertown PA meadville,pa,us
Posts: 165
RE: Measuring Stick
Once again, thank you to those who haven't beat me with your old bowstring. I was just asking and really don't want a reaction to my definition. I'm too old to really care what people think of me but I do like hearing what standards others set for themselves and the sport I've pretty much dedicated my life to for 40 yrs. now. I give bowhunting seminars, teach "barebow shooting" (Since you can't teach instincts) and speak a scouts, schools and church groups on hunting with the bow. I never preach equipment since I don't believe the average person should attempt to shoot at living game with traditional equipment until they reach a certain level of competancy and it's much easier to hit that level with a compound and sights. I've shot with some of the most well known people in the business and have to say a bunch of them aren't what I call "excellent" shots but they all know their limitations and stick to them. I honestly just wanted to know what others use as their definition of traditional since they chose the non-compound route for some reason. ( I'm really bleeding here!)
01-24-2002, 08:53 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California
Posts: 600
RE: Measuring Stick
Traditional is a word that lumps together a whole bunch of different people from a bunch of different backgrouds, their equipment and hunting methods and gets thrown about way too much. I'm a bowhunter that happens to carry a longbow afield and shoots a variety of arrows from it.
I also have to go along with Dick that anything less than 100% clean kills on big game at our chosen and limited hunting range is not acceptable.
I also have to go along with Dick that anything less than 100% clean kills on big game at our chosen and limited hunting range is not acceptable.
01-24-2002, 09:33 PM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Murray Kt USA
Posts: 66
RE: Measuring Stick
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I've been a part of another thread that has had lots of action on it concerning "Is bowhunting too hi-tech". After reading all the good bad and ugly I couldn't help but wonder where the traditional people stand so here goes:
1. To me traditional means a longbow or recurve, wooden arrows, re-sharpenable broadheads, no sights and of course a finger release.
2. With no other real way to compare accuracy levels I'll use 3D shoots. I feel no traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points while using the "hunter" stakes.
Where does everybody else fall in line with this. Just curious.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>To me Traditional archery or hunting is the way a person thinks , feels ,and acts when afield reguardless of the equipment used. Equipment is just that, whatever tripps you trigger. As far as 200 being a measuring stick I feel it is a personal thing. If you know your limits and you hit the kill on all your shots inside your limits, then your have shot 100%. The total score for shoot is 125 but you hit the kill on all the shots inside your limits, is this worse than 20 5's[wound shoots] and 10 tens?
Just a few of my thoughts,Bill
I've been a part of another thread that has had lots of action on it concerning "Is bowhunting too hi-tech". After reading all the good bad and ugly I couldn't help but wonder where the traditional people stand so here goes:
1. To me traditional means a longbow or recurve, wooden arrows, re-sharpenable broadheads, no sights and of course a finger release.
2. With no other real way to compare accuracy levels I'll use 3D shoots. I feel no traditional shooter should shoot under 200 points while using the "hunter" stakes.
Where does everybody else fall in line with this. Just curious.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>To me Traditional archery or hunting is the way a person thinks , feels ,and acts when afield reguardless of the equipment used. Equipment is just that, whatever tripps you trigger. As far as 200 being a measuring stick I feel it is a personal thing. If you know your limits and you hit the kill on all your shots inside your limits, then your have shot 100%. The total score for shoot is 125 but you hit the kill on all the shots inside your limits, is this worse than 20 5's[wound shoots] and 10 tens?
Just a few of my thoughts,Bill
01-25-2002, 01:10 AM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pennington minnesota
Posts: 63
RE: Measuring Stick
Longbow,recurve out of any material,arrows of any type sights if you like.No mechanical release,no mechanical advantage built into bow (no let-off).I have never shot a trad. 3D but would like to.The decision to hunt is a personal one an archer must make. I feel that it is up to the man and his maker-not subject to anyone elses standards, just as it is when a shot at game presents it's self-only you can choose to attempt that shot-no one else makes that choice. Cam [8d]
01-25-2002, 06:37 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ......
Posts: 3,643
RE: Measuring Stick
" I've shot with some of the most well known people in the business and have to say a bunch of them aren't what I call "excellent" shots but they all know their limitations and stick to them. "
OOOOOO, I'd like you to post some names
. Actually, I don't doubt it, as hunting becomes commercialized you're going to have that. Look at Bill Jordan - I aint impressed with his shooting ( that Waddell kid is another story ) but he's big time, and like you say, he knows his limitatioons. I wonder, like on the Jordan Team, how many deer are shot and lost every year ?
OOOOOO, I'd like you to post some names
. Actually, I don't doubt it, as hunting becomes commercialized you're going to have that. Look at Bill Jordan - I aint impressed with his shooting ( that Waddell kid is another story ) but he's big time, and like you say, he knows his limitatioons. I wonder, like on the Jordan Team, how many deer are shot and lost every year ?
01-25-2002, 07:24 AM
#27
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Centennial CO USA
Posts: 29
RE: Measuring Stick
Longbowman,
Band-Aids on the way!! You did ask where everyone fell in line, guess you found out. I did throw a big smiley in my response. You were a victim of what my kids call 'the English teacher treatment' when you didn't really explain what the 200 pt. 3D measuring stick was for - but we all figured it was a hunting readiness standard. I didn't see where anyone got into questioning your integrity, ancestry, or motives much. Good thread, and I hope you heal soon.
Tom
Band-Aids on the way!! You did ask where everyone fell in line, guess you found out. I did throw a big smiley in my response. You were a victim of what my kids call 'the English teacher treatment' when you didn't really explain what the 200 pt. 3D measuring stick was for - but we all figured it was a hunting readiness standard. I didn't see where anyone got into questioning your integrity, ancestry, or motives much. Good thread, and I hope you heal soon.
Tom
01-26-2002, 08:49 PM
#28
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Edson, Canada
Posts: 216
RE: Measuring Stick
The problem with the original thought is that The "RINGS" 10 8 and 5 scores don't always represent agood hunting shot. When I shoot 3-d I I try to ignore the rings and make a killing shot! This usually depends on the angle of the animal.
I make most of my leather goods, fletch my own arrows and just started cresting, shoot alum off the shelf and as I get more proficient I try the nextstep. Some day I may make my own bow. I don't shoot Tradition with my checkmate per say and I think for me to define it will require a whole lot more thought on my behalf.
Eric
Edited by - gelarson on 01/26/2002 22:07:02
I make most of my leather goods, fletch my own arrows and just started cresting, shoot alum off the shelf and as I get more proficient I try the nextstep. Some day I may make my own bow. I don't shoot Tradition with my checkmate per say and I think for me to define it will require a whole lot more thought on my behalf.
Eric
Edited by - gelarson on 01/26/2002 22:07:02
01-29-2002, 11:55 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goose Creek SC
Posts: 1,097
RE: Measuring Stick
It is intruiging that since this thread was first posted, I read a couple of magazine articles that would divide "traditional" into three classes. Those would be Primitive, Classic and Traditional.
Primitive - You have to cut and build everything yourself.
Classic - You have to shoot bow designs that are from the 1900-1950s era. You must shoot wood arrows with sharp to the point broadheads from that era.
Traditional - You shoot a bow made of wood, with any arrow and broadhead type you choose.
I personally think these divisions serve to hurt traditional archery. To each his own!
Primitive - You have to cut and build everything yourself.
Classic - You have to shoot bow designs that are from the 1900-1950s era. You must shoot wood arrows with sharp to the point broadheads from that era.
Traditional - You shoot a bow made of wood, with any arrow and broadhead type you choose.
I personally think these divisions serve to hurt traditional archery. To each his own!