NEW61375

And also like a compound with which they are most closely related. The fact of the matter isit is a primitive weapon which can be hunted with. As most DNR's are notgoing to make it a seperate season they generally try to include the weapon in the season it most closely fits, which is archery, that is what some seem to have a problem understanding.

In VA they made them legal during archery, good call IMO. But after reading some of the views on why they are not bows and should not be allowed I think they should have broken down the 6 week primitive weapons season even further. Instead of archery(bow/xbow) 6 weeks with the last 2 weeks also being BP they should have said you each get two weeks and they could have made it whatever order they wanted, xbow 1 week, bow 1 week, bp 1 weekthen repeat or just have xbow 2 weeks, bow 2 weeks, bp 2 weeks. How much belly aching would the "bow" hunters make over having to lose hunting time and share the woods even more, but the truth is bp hunters andxbow hunters are doing it alreadywhy should "bow" hunters be any different? Where does the sense of entitlement come from? I don't get it, I don't even want to really.

I hunt with my compound and my recurve, I lovethem both. I also welcome xbow hunters, there are plenty of woods and plenty of deer to kill and their presence has notaffected me in the least. I have shot lots of crossbows and enjoyed shooting them, I don't hunt with one yet but I can guarantee if there ever was a special xbow season in VA or NC I would ownandhunt with one for the same selfish reason I started bowhunting 18 years ago. I wanted more time to hunt, more hunting seasonto be out in the woods. A crossbow hunter should have the same oppurtunity to extend his season and hunt with his obviously primitive weapon during theprimitve weapons season(that's another change I would support call it primitive weapons season not archery seasonand break it down from there).JMO.

LBR

Covered that early on--primitive does not equal archery.

Can't say I don't blame you for not going back and reading the whole thing, but this has been covered as well. Early archery pioneers worked hard to get an ARCHERY season established, for simple bows and arrows. Others have come along and chipped away at it, riding coattails and not working for their own season. I don't understand the "sense of entitlement" either--it's coming from those who haven't had anyone work to get a season established, but rather just try to get added into a season someone else worked to get for a different weapon.

I've never argued that even once. I've said time and again that the crossbow is a primitive weapon, and I have no problem with it being used in the primitive weapons season. I will also work to keep the archery season just that--archery season.

Schultzy

Minnesota is set up where you can use crossbows during the gun season, not the archery season. They can be used during the archery season with a valid permit.

NEW61375

I actually have read this entire thread(haven't figured out why yet) so I'm not sure what exactly your trying to imply. You were not the only person in this thread so the questions I posted (that largely went unanswered) were not meantfor just you. I did see the references to people fighting for archery season I am just not conviced that means"everything" anymore.Because archery season was establishedyears ago that means the seasons can't evolve tofit what hunting is now?And does it also meanthat anyone whowants evensmall changesis "riding coattails" and should just get their own season. Right, that makes perfect sense we should approach all thing in life with those blinders on.

Archery season is primative weapons season, there is no difference. So why should2 of the three primative weapons(bows/bp) have their own part of the whole primative seasonand thethird(xbows) has nothing and not only nothing butoppositionagainst beingincluded in the archery part of theprimitive weapons season that already exists and that it fits in(since it is a bow+). And what's worse is the opposition is from hunters. That's what I don't get. How does it effect you negativelyas a bow hunter ifcrossbow hunters are in the woods? Go ahead and tell me this has already been covered, I readit and the reasoning is shallow at best and just plain greedy at worst.

Ther are over 1,000,000 deer in VA. Crossbow hunters killed around 7,000 last season and other archery hunters around 17,000. Those pricks with xbowsare killing all the deer. Right, I mean they are if you don't count the other 993,000 +otherdeer that wererunning around the woods. There are plenty of deer to go around and the small numbers of xbow hunters have arelatively small impact on the big picture, I have no problem sharing the woods it just seems like the right thing(to me of course).

LBR trust me I get it. You don't like crossbows and don't want anyone using one in "bow" season. That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, and while I can understand some of the points you make but to some degreeI don't think you are doing the same, everyhting is not alwayscut and dry black and white, especially with topics like this.

hatchet jack

If the UBP fought to ban Xbows in archery season,they must have a good reason!

LBR

I assumed you hadn't because you seemed to be directing questions at me that I'd already covered.

It is what it is. Archery season--bows and arrows. That's what it was established for.

I'm just not sure how to take that statement. I don't think anyone even remotely familiar with the weapons are ignorant enough to actually believe there is no difference between bows, crossbows,muzzleloaders, and in some places certain caliber single-shot centerfire rifles--all considered "primitive" weapons.

You are just wrong there, at least concerning MS (where I live). Crossbows can be used during primitive weapons season and rifle season. We (archery hunters) lost two weeks of our season to primitive weapons season a few years ago. What we have left, most hunters don't care to get out in to begin with (already went over all that also). So just what are we taking again? How are we being selfish?

Maybe you read it--you sure don't bother to try to comprehend or understand it.

It's very obvious you don't, and I don't think you care to. You say you've read the entire thread, but obviously you ignored parts of it. I've stated several times I have nothing against the weapons themselves, or the people that use them, yet you state just the opposite. Pretty sure I know my feelings better than you do.

At the risk of dragging out a ridiculously long thread even more, here's how I see it.

There's a very few die-hard crossbow enthusiasts who enjoy the weapon for the spirit of the weapon--like Wyvern and Art, who have gone as far as building true primitive replicas of the weapons. I can respect that, but they are a tiny fraction of a fraction of the minority, and even though that is the type hunter that could get a season established for them, there's not anywhere near enough of them to get anything done. Life ain't fair. They can at least use their weapon of choice in primitive weapons season, and in at least some states during gun season.

You have another small fraction, although much larger than the above still small, of disabled and elderly hunters who honestly cannot physically shoot a bow. Most states (including MS) have provisions for those people and allow them to use crossbows during archery season. I can live with that.

The majority of what's left are people who don't want to bother learning to shoot a bow and/or think the crossbow is a magical weapon far superior to a bow (it's not), but want to extend their hunting season beyond rifle and primitiveweaponsseasons. They don't care to work for getting their own season established, so the only thing left is to try to barge in on the short period of time that only bows are allowed in the hunting woods.

We have the shortest amount of time allotted for specific weapons seasons, and we generally have the least desireable time of the season (at least we do in MS). Yet because we want to keep the season what it is, and what it was fought for and established for, we are just shallow,greedy and selfish? Give me a break.......

Hey, your granddad worked his butt off all his life, made sacrifices, and thanks to him your father and now youare able to live a comfortable life. The next guy comes along, his granddad didn't do the work and make the sacrifices, neither did his dad, and now he isn't willing to either--but he wants you to give him an equal part of what's yours. Are you going to split what you have with him right down the middle just because he wants it? Or are you one of those shallow, greedy, selfish types?

Chad

burniegoeasily

After reading through all this mess, im sure glad some of you dont make the laws.

Big Duane

Double Creek that sounds aweful like you've drawn the line, compounds aint included but you don't want to pee in anyone Cheerios

like I posted earlier, your hunt wouldn't change hardly any with a crossbow vs a compound and you'd miss opportunities with both that you wouldn't with the other. I really believe that too - but trad bows launch you into a totally different type of hunting.

question Double Creek - a recurve with peep, sights and mechanical release ....... same thing as a compound then for the most part ?

I have both, but right now I'm shooting the recurve just because. I shoot the old style Adcock pretty well too. Neither is easier, LBR could pick either one of them up and in a few shots shoot them pretty well I imagine, Double Creek too.

doesn't everybody kinda do that ? but in this game, I'm not a young guy in his first year or two or archery. I've been there and done a LOT of that. I've killed my share of animals, hunted a lot of states, and done it with rifle, muzzleloader, compound recurve and longbows. I'm saying that as a basis of yes, I in fact DO know quite a bit about it all.

I think in fact I've said that and MORE. The hunt is why I'm in the woods, the killing ? If it happens it happens, but my hunting will be 100% successful and I will have a grand time doing it.


ahhh thats the kicker though ... it IS more difficult, and thus the whole reason that archery season was spawned in the first place, forged decades ago by dedicate recurve and longbow shooters.

they GOT you the season you're in now, and compounds weren't a part of that club. Rule were changed to allow them.


brucelanthier I do not sugar coat things. I don't ***** foot around and watch stepping on toes. Its the internet, I mean geeeeeeesh, we're having a friendly debate, talking, making a few jabs etc but in truth at its core, we ARE talking about a very important issue, one thats been around for a long time and seems to never go away.

I KNOW the guy who makes his own bows and arrows and trade points is a more dedicated bowhunter than me. I know that, its 100% FACT. Its why very few do. I also know trad bowhunting is very much harder than compound shooting, thats why most shoot compounds, its EASIER. Duh, thats human nature, and its what our society has devleoped into - the easier the better. Rifle hunting is easier still.

That aint debateable, its fact, proven by looking at kill stats, who uses what and the record books, who's killing the most big animals etc.

What gets people is being lumped into the groups thats above others, and being told they hunt "easier". People don't like to hear that, as true as it is.


NEW61375 Arkansas has 5 monhts of bowhunting including crossbows. We don't need a special season for them, for compound for recurves or for longbows.


LBR

crossbows aint differnt really, and thats where you and I don't see eye to eye.

The fastest, quiestes, most accurate bows in the Arkansas woods every fall aint crossbows LBR and we allow them. Its compounds. THEY are the most superior weapon in the woods, thats why people choose to shoot them.

Realizing that, and using your logic, compounds would be the more advanced, technolgoical weapon and they need THEIR OWN season.

But we manage to handle it well, as do all states that allow crossbows. Come to find it, it doesn't bring any negatives at all.

Chad what is this thing ? A bow-plus too I imagine ?




I mean geeeeesh, you consider the above a bow ? Its not hand drawn, you don't have to draw it in the presence of game, its very likely 85% letoff or more, sights, triggers ....... THATS a bow ?






I do understand your argument. I also understand its based on a sliver of difference between how a crossbow and a compound works, its P&Y's staple argument, but in truth, where allowed, crossbows have never been the demon they've been made out to be in FACT compounds brought in millions more than crossbows ever did, more accidents, more questionable characters using them and more "be a two season hunter" kind of guys.

Sorry compounders, its the truth.


LBR - If its TRUELY all about drawing the bow, then you HAVE to be against the compound bow-pluses because they breach what drawing a bow is all about, the triggers and the high let offs. Remember, you still have to draw a crossbow too, they don't self draw


hell yeah ! ban the compounds !


FYI crossbows were here thousand years before compounds FYI


hell yeah ! ban the compounds !

no, it was originally established for recurves and longbows, NOT compounds

can you hunt in muzzleloader season with your trad bow ?






legal archery weapon in MN too then - glad thats been defined !




NEW61375 and here's the kicker - NEVER not ONCE has crossbows being legal led to a negative. Never. Anti-crossbow people will argue until they're blue in the face, and they cannot produce one fact to use to say crossbows can't come in. Not one. That lack of fact is why I lean toawrds allowing all bows until the point comes (if it ever does) of HAVING to do something simply because of too many animals being killed or maybe too manyhunters.

Never has that happened though

SteveBNy

2 seasons - archery and gun.

Powder/bang is what seperates them.

Putting the crossbow(archery) in the archery season has not hurt one bow season anywhere it has been done.

To argue putting an archery (string powered - no powder/bang) weapon into archery season will somehow give relevance to primitive guns (powder/bang) being allowed in archery follows no logic at all - in my mind.

Steve

Wyvern Crossbow

"If the UBP fought to ban Xbows in archery season,they must have a good reason!"

Ummm...no, that does not mean anything other than they had"A reason". Good,bad, selfish, for the good of all archers...the "reason" iswhat this debate is about. I appreciate that bowhutners want to keep it "bowhunting"( right there with ya), but excluding a bow simply because it is diferent and does not fall under "your definition" is such a waste of time. You reduce the ranks of bowhunters, give more reason for the states to open up more time to gun hunters to control the herds, and base most of yourreasons on assumptions and outright lies about crossbows and what they can/cant do and what kind of people use them. I have to deal with this attitude at the bowhunter ed level in my states. I have such a bunch of idiots wandering around with $1200 compounds refusing to teach crossbow safety (required in my state mind you) because they are "not a bow". Most have never even shot a crossbow(refuse to)and dont know its limitations. Groups like the PBS need to get their heads out of their *** and actually do something constructive for bowhunting for a change...

Wyvern