NEW61375

They have been rising a little each season since 2005, the past two seasons have averaged very close numbers. I would not be surprised to see it continue to rise slightly and that would not effect my opinion. Like I said combined bow & xbow = 24,000(small percentage)and firearms (including bp) is near 200,000 so I would like to see both bow and xbow numbers rise. Lord knows the deer are there to kill.

I agree to a point that as a hunting community wecan degrade or chisel away at what the hunting heritage/tradition is. Everyone wants the next best thing, the great new product, easier, faster, "guaranteed", stronger, better. Between marketing and technology I would agree the"traditional" hunting heritageis taking a hit. Now that doesn't mean that there is not good being brought to the table as well but hunting is big business/$$$$ and that usually does tarnish it somewhat in my opinion.

It is up to individuals to do their best to hang on to the things that IMO are reallyimportant to hunting like opening day traditions, spending time with the family/friends, comradery, peace & quiet, a slower pace, fresh air, a camp fire, hunting tales, kids hunting, helping one another, hunters feasts, the emotions you feel in the woods like that feeling when you glance up from a tough blood trail and see your downed trophy just ahead orthe anticipation that comes with the first glimmer of light on any morning in the woods, and I'm sure there are 1,000,000 other things most on this site could add. Those are things that matter to me andthose are the things I want my kids(and others I introduce to hunting)to know are the mostimportantaspects ofhunting and being a hunter not what bow or xbow or gun or stand or binocs or grunt call or any other material item you hunt with, but hey that's just me.

Lanse couche couche

NEW,

I agree. Enjoying oneself and the company of others, and passing ones chosen tradition(s) along is what it is all about. And no one style has cornered the market on stuff like that. Those who think otherwise are the ones that have a lot to learn.

I'm off to happy hour, so I will leave it to you fellas. On the way there, though, I am gonna stop off at Gander Mountain and see if they have a camaraderie meter in stock, so i can measure how much more fun than me those other lucky dogs are having. [8D]

LBR

Again, you are making it up as you go. I said it's a bow-plus, and I never stated it as anything more than an opinion--just like it's your opinion that a crossbow is just another type of bow.

What "facts"? Seems I'm the one that stated my case based on the differences. Again, if you can't confront my points based on what I actually said, maybe you need to re-evaluate your stance--or at least own up to what I said earlier--you like them, you want to hunt with them in the archery-only season, therefore you consider them to be archery equipment. I can respect an honest answer and opinion. I don't have any respect for putting words in my mouth.

So? You haven't hunted with a bow or crossbow, but your opinions are supposed to hold water, while mine--based on near 20 years experience--don't? You ignore the fact I never said anything negative about hunting with a crossbow, I haven't protested hunting with a crossbow, I simply stated that in my opinion they don't belong in the archery-only season and gave the reasons for that opinion. I don't see why you or anyone else feels the need to make things up just because you don't agree with that opinion, especially when it obviously means nothing to you either way. Just like to argue?

Where have I said anything concerning the physics of a crossbow, one way or the other? How would you know who is wrong and who is right even if I had?

Another thinly veiled and false accusation. I never said or implied the above. They are simply different weapons, just like a rifle and a shotgun and a bow are different. Different seasons for different weapons.

Coming from someone who admits they don't, have not, and has no future interest inhunting with a bow. I've got near 20 yearsexperience, but according to you my opinions are baseless because I haven't hunted with a crossbow. You haven't hunted with a bow or a crossbow, but somehow your opinions on themare supposed to mean more than mine?

FYI, for the type hunting I do, often traditional gear is easier to me. I don't like to tinker with nuts and bolts and screws, and I usually hunt in thick woods where shot distance is limited regardless of what weapon you are using. I can speak from experience--I don't have to make it up as I go along.

Funny how every point I make gets dodged or twisted. If I'm so wrong in my opinion it should be easy to expose--right?

Chad

burniegoeasily

So, are you trying to protect bow hunting heratige, or bow hunting rights? I dont think the traditional heratige is in any way threatened. Ive seen it grow quit a bit since the advent of the high tech compounds. The high tech stuff gets people started, then when they have accomplished it, they move on to a bigger challenge. Id wagger many on this forum, right now got their start with compounds. Trad gear did take a big hit in the 80s on up to the 90s, but i think its making a come back. The old is the new, new. But I under stand the idea of trying to insure the tradition continues. As for crossbows, im not sure what to call them, but it does not bother me that they are being used.

Wyvern Crossbow

"thought I read that you own a archery shop. Question for ya. Whats the choice of bow that you would recommend to a young kid 13 years old getting into bow hunting for the 1st time?"

What does that kid want to shoot??? If he wants a compound, then I would get him into a compound, if he wants a crossbow, then a crossbow...if he wants a trad bow, well then I would get him into a light target bow first, then after alot of practice he can come back and I would set him upwith a trad bow to go huniting with. See the diferance?? The compound and crossbow allow that 13 year old to be proficient to hit what he is aiming at (and ONLY that!!) in a short amount of time so he can gain confidence and enjoyment from archery. Does that make him a "bowhunter"?? Well, hecan wander thru the woodscarrying his compound or crossbow and scare a bunch of deer, but till he developes the rest of the skills a bowhunter needs he is going to come home empty handed. That is a big factor....the best compoundor crossbow in the world will not get you any more deer if you do not know how to "bow hunt".Learning to shoot a trad bow takes a level of determinationthat is lacking in many kids today. It is not quite like picking up a bow in World of Warcraft and being proficient at it. Modern equipment keeps the F&G funds coming in, new generations interesed in the sportAS A WHOLE, and the deer population under control. A few of those kids may even pick up trad stuff when they get bored of being able to hit the bullseye every time...

"Yes Wyvern it is my standard and only my standard!! Not once did I say everyone should do it the way I hunt, never did I say that! "

Actually, every time you stated "Thats not bowhunting!" or "Thats not a bow!" you set the standard for everyone. You did come back and say that in you "opinion" it was not a bow or not bow hunting. but that is the issue. You blanket crossbows with a label that is not correct. In any definition of a "bow" how much or how little is being held at full draw and how long it can be held for is not noted...those factors do not come into play in its definition...It is a bow. That is a fact that you refuse to accept. And the same goes for is it "archery". By definition (especialy TODAYS definition) it is archery. you dont like crossbows...fine..not an issue, but you would fight to keep them out of archery season based on an opinion that is flawed and is rooted in your standards and not fact. This keeps that 13 year old kid from having another choice of archery equipment that may get him into the woods and make him an ethical hunter who helps the rest of us by adding to the voice and dollars of all bowhunters. You can have your opinion and hunt the way you choose, but you cant opinion away facts and you are doing nothing positive for what bowhunting is and ultimately has to become to keep hunting open for all of us.

Wyvern

Wyvern Crossbow

"You can have your opinion and hunt the way you choose, but you cant opinion away facts and you are doing nothing positive for what bowhunting is and ultimately has to become to keep hunting open for all of us. "

That came out harsh...sorry...
Wyvern

bigcountry

I seriously doubt that, seeing how you post. Who knows with you. Probably needed to find someone to argue with, and BD wasn't posting much in politics. Maybe your following Duane around. Thats probably what it is.

Schultzy

I do nothing positive for the bow hunting world? This is coming from a salesman, low blow and expected from your kind! No wonder people get irritated with salesman. I myself too would set that kid up with a compound so he/she can get there feat wet. Thats how my folks started me out years ago.

Wyvern Crossbow

" do nothing positive for the bow hunting world? This is coming from a salesman, low blow and expected from your kind! No wonder people get irritated with salesman. "

That is the reason I followed it with an appology...I am hitting "send" too quick and that was uncalled for by me...

Again, I am sorry
Wyvern

LBR

Wyvern, I had posted before I ready your last couple of posts. Thanks for the clarification, and I apologize if I came across the wrong way. I don't think any less of you or anyone else for enjoying a crossbow, or wanting to use one in archery season. I'm just a country boy living in the sticks in MS, and just stated my opinion--that's all it was, and all it's worth.

At the risk of stirring the pot again........

Let me play the devil's advocate here. I understand the need to introduce new hunters, especially kids, to the sport. I understand kids crave immediate results and often lack patience.

However, I really don't think that compounds and crossbows are the answer. Like you said, they won't magically make an animal appear in the woods. So they can hit the target after 20 minutes of instruction--then what? Will that keep them in the blind on or the stand for hours on end? Will it teach them to read signs and learn game habits?

Point being is, sooner or later, the kid or any new hunter is going to have tofind out that hunting isn't about instant gratification--you get back what you put into it. It takes work to be sucessful, and even if you work your butt off there are no guarantees.

Learning to shoot a bow is a step in thatprocess--finding out there's more to it that they see on the hunting shows, and gaining the confidence and satisfaction of getting something back when they put in the time to learn.

Kids are usually pretty amazing in how fast they can learn to shoot a bow.My son started when he was two. I'm in the process of helping several new archers learn to shoot--somehave shot a compound, some never shot a bow at all, and off and on there's about 10 kids involved. Everyone is having a ball with it, and several adults got involved after seeing how much fun their kids were having.

I don't think the answer is try to make it easier for them--if that's the case, stick a rifle in their hands, put them in a fence with a tame animal, and in 10 minutes they have completed their "hunt". They learn nothing, they work for nothing, and it winds up meaning nothing.

Like I said, we get back what we put into it.If we have a concern about the future of hunting, we need to bring folks in and help them learn what it's all about. We can talk and debate and fuss back and forth on message boards, or we can get out and do something. That, in my opinion, is the answer.

Chad