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RE: Elitist attitude
So if you allow anyone to use a crossbow it is like letting anyone take a handicapped spot at Walmart???? Who writes this stuff???
If I poll 100 members of "bowhuntin orgaizations" that preach crossbows are not bows I get a 90% "against it" vote....Since when did the DNC run crossbow polls???? Even if you allow crossbows, the number of archers is dropping...Hmmm...how long till the archery kill drops enough that they let in guns to control the herd??? Seems that rather than fighting crossbows, you should be embracing them and making more efforts to get bows...ANY bows...in new peoples hands rather than waste you time fighting an archery weapon that may increase your ranks and give you more clout against the antis and gun hunters. I dont have the time an energy to go thru this bit by bit, but I can easily take all of your arguments and turn them pro crossbow. As I said before...you are entitled to your opinion and belief. My concern is that unless you change your attitude and start taking some of this energy and focus on getting more archers into your ranks (leave crossbows out for the moment) then you will loose archery season to the gun hunters. The argument has been made here that compound users dont shoot much...OK..what can us traditional guys do to change that??? The equipment should only matter in the smallest detail."Archery season" needs archers...ALL archers...if not, then it becomes several weeks where the state makes little money that gun hunters will be very happy to step in and cough up cash for tags during those weeks. I actually do see what you are saying (I dont agree, but see your point) about "where does it end" as far as equipment, but ultimately looking at the numbers THAT YOU PROVIDED...you guys are missing the boat as to how to imporve things... OK...here is a good one...how many are bowhunter safety instructors in your states??? NASP instructors??? SCA marshals???of any other thing that gets bows into peoples hands and helps promote the sport? I am sure many of you are. Those that are not have no room to complain about the situation of a drop in archers.... Wyvern |
RE: Elitist attitude
Even if you allow crossbows, the number of archers is dropping...Hmmm...how long till the archery kill drops enough that they let in guns to control the herd??? Seems that rather than fighting crossbows, you should be embracing them and making more efforts to get bows...ANY bows...in new peoples hands rather than waste you time fighting an archery weapon that may increase your ranks and give you more clout against the antis and gun hunters. It seems you missed the entire point of thread....Its a myth that letting crossbows in will strengthen the numbers... See the data I provided.. OK...here is a good one...how many are bowhunter safety instructors in your states??? NASP instructors??? SCA marshals???of any other thing that gets bows into peoples hands and helps promote the sport? I am sure many of you are. Those that are not have no room to complain about the situation of a drop in archers.... |
RE: Elitist attitude
"It seems you missed the entire point of thread....Its a myth that letting crossbows in will strengthen the numbers... See the data I provided.. "
No...I caught it, but to avoid the "its not a bow" thing I did not say my first thought that if this is the case the huge influx of gun hunters tearing up the woods during archery season is a myth as well. But since it got brought up again...if they make no negitive impact, why not let them in and possible convert some gun hunters to swell the ranks of archers??? I know, I know..."its not a bow":eek: "After 2 years of secretary of the MS Bowhunters Association and about to go on my another 2yr term, I can assure you I've done my part in promoting, protecting, and preserving bowhunting in this state" Good for you...:) Wyvern |
RE: Elitist attitude
As I understand it, time was added to the hunting season specifically for archery. Nobody using any other weapon lost even one day, or had their season changed to accomodate archery season. I also mentioned that if the market gets opened up, and the money starts pouring in, it's very likely we'll see advances never thought about--just like we've seen with compounds in the last 10 years. Bull. First, they are only legal for a slim minority (disabled and elderly, two groups who don't generally hunt a lot to begin with). I already told you one way it will effect me--there will be folks that don't know or care to learn about the weapon, other than how to load, aim, and pull the trigger--taking them to the woods in droves. Adults to lazy to bother, and their kids that they won't teach. We need to bring in a bunch of folks that think a crossbow is a "jump and shoot" weapon, without knowing squat else about it. I figure most will give it up eventually, once they find out that crossbows aren't magical, but at what cost? I figure that 99% of those that care a bit about hunting already hunt. brucelanthier tell me why you don't sell all your compound gear right now and go trad then ? do you really want to try and tell me a compound isn't more powerful ? easier to draw and hold ? easier to be more accurate with ? wanna know something ? I can shoot your compound pretty dang good. Give me 3-4 shots to get a feel for it, and I'll be shooting very good groups in short order Can you do that with my recurve ? wanna know something else ? Most men and women can do it too. Not AS good AS quickly as me, because I've shot before, but its a sighting system and trigger - compounds are DESIGNED to shoot accurate ! That not to take away from your bowhunting either. Its tough, bowhunting is. I can count many times deer have busted me trying to get that 20 yard range. I can't ocunt many times it would have mattered any if I'd have had a compound or crossbows - probably about equal ammounts that one would have given me an advantage over the other. Thats the truth too - a crossbow is worthless trying to turn around for deer behind you. Worthless for second shot opportunities. Worthless for elk hunting and stalking antelope. I can count all those times about and many more that HAVING a compound in my hand or crossbow would have made all the difference instead of the recurve in my hand. There is THAT much differnece. Because there IS that much difference, I really don't see that it matters if a guy has a compound or crossbow. It aint much difference, its never proven to be a negative in archery / bowhunting season and it wont' affect my hunting in the least. 30+ years now and it hasn't, that it magically would is almost a non existant possibility IMO I think it was already asked, but I'll ask anyway--do you want to keep rifles out of the archery season? If so, aren't you just as guilty of the "my season" mentality? you really see a crossbow the same as a rifle don't you ? Gunpower, bullets or not, you see them as the same ? I'd make a wager with you Chad. This fall hunt with a crossbow in Arkansas with me. Come up and you can shoot my Dad's Excalibur. You'll have no more deer within 20 yards because of it. None of them will give you any better shots than if you had your Crusader in your hand.You'll not be able to still hunt with it like you could your longbow, and you won't be able tostand and shoot anything behind you. You won't ever get another shot.You WILL be able to shoot without making much movement, thats a plus but its so loud you might not get the deer because of jumping the string. The crossbow in your hand ..... it will not make you a better hunter. I think it would actually make YOU a worse hunter because you're not use to the restrictionsshooting a crossbow has ! Hunt the next week with me and shoot my Q2, and you'll have very similar luck. Sight, trigger, you won't have to wait until the deer isright there to focus/draw. Its quiter. You can get a 2nd shot if you're lucky. You can still hunt with it. It won't make you a better huntereither. You'llnot get more P&Y bucks by you because of it. Both bows WILL give you a better chance to kill deer over your stickbow because they're powerful, flat shooting, they havesights, trigger releases, they're DESIGNED to make you much more accurate, thus a higher % of kills can be had. If so, aren't you just as guilty of the "my season" mentality? if you call in between those then you're an elitist. you want YOUR easy, or you you DON'T want someone else to have THEIR choice of weapons and it don't matter all the stuff you liost to justfiy it ..... in the end, you'r saying you want to restrict whats allowed in archery season. is that bad or good or ?? I dunno ....... sometimes I think allow it all, it won't hurt (look at all the states and provinces that allow them, no negatives come from it) or go trad only (like the few places (McAlister military base etc) and make it what it once was, truly a primitive season. We fear it sets a precedent for OTHER weapons from those quotes I refuse to accept that abled body adults can't use archery gear. Maybe you can pull only 35 pounds...that's more than enough for whitetails. My son killed many deer with recurves of the same approx weight. Does anyone really want to take the disabled and elderly special privileges away? The use of the crossbow allows them to participate equally with other hunters...despite their special challenges. Opening it up to anyone is like a perfectly healthy driver taking the handicapped parking spot at Walmart and saying...they can still park anywhere they want!" ask all the handi-cap in Arkansas, they're more than happy to have everyone hunting in archery season. the above anaology is stupid anyway, archery hunting isn't a finitie number of tags like parking spaces 4) Georgia is down almost 25% in archery participation since the crossbows legalization in 2002. Forgiveness of the states actions by bowhunters is hard to get there. 5) Alabama participation in the archery season has also dropped double digits since the crossbow was legalized. See item number 4. WHY are those numbers down ? Nobody can seriously believe that compounders are staying homw with crossbows in the woods ? Thats a ridiculous thing to assume, there has to be another reason ? 7) Mississippi's archery participation has held steady over the last few years and actually has shown a small growth as opposed to our crossbow neighboring states whose participation is plummenting. where are the Arkansas and Ohio stats ? left out intentionally I see ? I submit the losses in hunting numbers don't have any direct relations to crossbows being allowed. The numbers were falling anyway 10) In Ohio bowhunters are the minority users in the archery season. crossbow users make up 55% of the total participates. In Arkansas, around 45% are crossbow users. I want to know where those stats come from. I rarely see crossbows in the woods, its almost always compounds ??? 11) A new age of crossbow technology is being developed. One crossbow maker advertises 400 FPS speeds. Since the hunter doesn't have to pull the bowstring..there is no end to the innovation of the product. Matt / pA will tell you compounds are very close to that threshold too 12) Most importantly, no poll ever shows that hunters want the crossbow legalized. Partly due to the fact, that the crossbow has no American heritage and history as a sporting component LOL ....... HISTORY is crossbows, recurves and longbows. Compounds are the new kid on the scene, I can't believe they actually published that ! DoubleCreek you know that the anti-crossbow sentiment comes from people not wanting more people in the woods. They want it all to themselves. Its got really nothing to do with how a bow works, hell people can't even discuss the metrics of it ! It sth emost hypocritical thing in the world for a decked out compounds shooterto tell a crossbow he can't bowhunt in archery season. I mean, seriously ......... |
RE: Elitist attitude
I figure most any argument could be turned around--I don't want to make anyone mad, just stating my opinion and the reasons behind it.
I'm not a certified instructor, but I am fortunate enough to be in a situation where I have been able to bring a lot of young, and some older, hunters into the archery fold--with tradtional bows. I know kids are supposed to be impatient, won't bother learning to shoot traditional, etc.--somehow I've found a whole bunch that seem to think traditional archery is a blast and can't wait to come over and tear up my targets. Got four of them here right now, had two new possibilities earlier today. Chad |
RE: Elitist attitude
Bowhunters are quitting hunting in areas where xbows have been legalized??????????
If true, I cannot fathom they cared all that much for it to start with and are using it as an excuse. OR With a FEW exceptions, overall numbers in all catagories are dropping nationwide. Steve |
RE: Elitist attitude
DoubleCreek you know that the anti-crossbow sentiment comes from people not wanting more people in the woods. They want it all to themselves. Its got really nothing to do with how a bow works, hell people can't even discuss the metrics of it ! It sth emost hypocritical thing in the world for a decked out compounds shooterto tell a crossbow he can't bowhunt in archery season. I mean, seriously ......... I can only speak for myself... I do not want the woods to myself... I hunt family owned land anyway and already have it to myself so to speak. I'm anti-cross bow for the reasons I've mentioned. I just think it opens the door for other weapons. I'm only 30yrs old, so compounds have always been a part of my archery life... They have 35 years of history in this state and they are here to stay. At the very least, I want to hold on to the tradition of a archery only format... If we lose that, bowhunting as we know it is over... Maybe Im too romantic, but I don't want to lose that tradition. Also, seeing how 95% of bowhunters shoot a compound, trying to get them banned is a losing battle and not worth fighting... Just b/c someone wants to shoot an xbow during archery season, doesnt mean they should be able to.. Under our current rules, xbow lovers have 2.5 months they can enjoy their weapon.. I only bowhunt and I don't bitch b/c I have to share the woods with all the gunners during the most prime hunting times... I just accept it as it is and I hunt within that format.. I don't want to limit another hunters options... Under our format, you can hunt with any number of weapons for 4 months.. We feel that is ample opportunity. One thing that is overlooked...... For guys like many of us in this forum, we are 100% bowhunters... So regardless of what season is in, we choose the bow..... Any changes in season formats will not have much effect on us b/c we deal with multiple weapons already...... HOWEVER.....for the 90% of bowhunters in MS that only do it for the extra time in the field, a one season format would be the demise of bowhunting... It would break my heart to see that happen... To lose that tradition.... That history..... It has already happened with the primitive weapon season.... That format is lost forever.... |
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy Bowhunters are quitting hunting in areas where xbows have been legalized?????????? If true, I cannot fathom they cared all that much for it to start with and are using it as an excuse. OR With a FEW exceptions, overall numbers in all catagories are dropping nationwide. Steve Steve, We never said it was b/c of the xbow, we just pointed that our 2 neighboring states that have introduced xbows in the last decade have experienced declining numbers while our numbers have remained steady and even grown.... Could be totally unrelated, but also is alarming enough not to simply dismiss. |
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Big Duane brucelanthier tell me why you don't sell all your compound gear right now and go trad then ? do you really want to try and tell me a compound isn't more powerful ? easier to draw and hold ? easier to be more accurate with ? wanna know something ? I can shoot your compound pretty dang good. Give me 3-4 shots to get a feel for it, and I'll be shooting very good groups in short order Can you do that with my recurve ?  . Are you just making stuff up now?. It looks that way :eek:. I am sure you can shoot a compound pretty well, you have had 13 yrs to practice LOL. But don't be so sure I couldn't shoot your recurve fairly well. I mean, how hard can it be if you can do it ;)? Now you run along little fella and make some BS to argue with someone else, OK? I'm done with you and this thread. |
RE: Elitist attitude
I just think it opens the door for other weapons. Double Creek Everything you said about crossbows can be said of compounds. " Be a Two Season Hunter " - remember that ? Who coined it and why ? There was a time when bowhunting was recurves and longbows. If you wanted to hunt that season, learn how to use one. Somehow, compounds were allowed in, and now its their season, and they're fighting to not have the same thing happen to them as they did to trad archery. Ironic, isn't it ? Double Creekif you hunt your own lands, crossbows would never be an impact to you. The ONLY impact I can see (and its the same impact compounds bring) is more bowhunters, which you've provided evidence that it might not even help IF they are allowed. So ..... there is really no argument against them. Oh sure, we can bicker about how its drawed, but in reality, its a short range bow just like a compound. There is an argument to be made for "choose your weapons" tags. In other words, you hunt with archery equipment or rifles/shotguns etc, you do not get to hunt with both. THat would weed out all the rifle guys wanting to come into archery season I gaurantee ! We never said it was b/c of the xbow, we just pointed that our 2 neighboring states that have introduced xbows in the last decade have experienced declining numbers while our numbers have remained steady and even grown.... Could be totally unrelated, but also is alarming enough not to simply dismiss. You're a funny little guy LOL. Perhaps you can show me whereI tried to tell you that a compound isn't more powerful, easier to draw, easier to be more accurate . Are you just making stuff up now?. It looks that way :eek:.
But don't be so sure I couldn't shoot your recurve fairly well. I mean, how hard can it be if you can do it ;)? You don't have to validate whay I questioned, because I know the answer. I've been there and done that. You'll find you need to shoot your compound a week or two prior to archery season beginning to dust off the cobwebs, and your inches groups will be right where they were last year. Very littledifference. As you bowhunt more, you'll learn to draw as the animal is coming in, holding until it gives you the shot you want, using your sights and triggered release. You'll feel like anything within 30-40 yards of your stand you can kill anytime you wish - you're that accurate with your bow. I've been there, and I've walked away and I'vewalked back. That accuracy, that power, that increased ability to make the killing shot is a powerful draw. And then yougo back, and you're like "wow, this isn't challenging at all" :(From that, I've learned a lot I think, in that the kill is less and less important. Its the journey, its the hunt, its the CHALLENGE. Its all abour perspective too. Afirst year bowhunter never having stepped into the woods will finda crossbow huntingn VERY challenging. So would a life long rifle hunter. Orcompounds, they'd find the hunting vastly different. But taking a trad bowinto the woods it totally different still |
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