RE: Elitist attitude
 

So whats your point? What are saying? I said I don't kill for the thrill of the kill. Why are you posting this? Your not making much sense in this post.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

What crossbows are you relating too? For cryin out loud Bowtech makes one that does 405fps with a 425gr bolt. That's like 155ft lbs of KE. It's still carrying more at 100yds than my 70# compound does at point blank.
I know I SHOT them. I can hold almost 1" groups at 60 and 70yds with one. I couldn't DREAM of doing that with a compound.
Compounds are the #1 choice for bowhunters because compounds are ARCHERY. They are bows and considered BOWHUNTING. Hate to break it to you but the vast majority of bowhunters do not see crossbows as BOWHUNTING. That's why they use compound bows. Not because they feel it's a better killing tool. IT's NOT.
I am an honest elite level compound bow shooter, competitive on a national leveland I could never in a million years feel like I am at an advanatge with a compound bow vs a crossbow.
I've held the new crossbows, I've shot them........they almost feel UNFAIR.

Seriously. You can argue the point that compounds are so easy and THEY ARE EASIER THAN TRAD BOWS. but to even TRy to argue that they are as easy or easier than a crossbow is almost crazy.
I'm not guessing on this, I shoot them.

Compounds relate to archery, you draw, you anchor, you can use fingers if you so choose, you hold weight back and you either release the string or let the bow down.
You do all these with a traditional bow only you hold all the weight and most don't use sights.
Both are archery.

A crossbow held at full draw for 6hrs under 175# of force just waiting to launch a 425gr bolt at double the energy of my 70# compound while resting on a shooting stick or rail taking aim with rifle sights or a scope is NOT relatable to archery in any way other than the means to the end. An animal died by what amounts to an arrow with a broadhead tip.

My head isn't clouded up with any bias. I represent a company that sells compounds and crossbows and also choose to seriously shoot traditional bows. I can relate all 3 without making theoretical arguments. I USE all 3.

Traditional bows, obviously the toughest to master, require a great deal of skill to be truly proficient (NOBODY is gonna argue that point)

Compound bows, easier to master than a trad bow because of 2 things, let-off allowing the archer to take his time and aim while holding a lower weight, and the wide use of sighting systems. But do not confuse it for not being archery. Of course I can be more quickly proficient with a compound anyone can and that's just a given.

Crossbows, relate more closely to a gun........they are ready to fire at the flick of a safety, require NO practice or indiviudal tuning to be ready to go. I could sight one in and hand it to someone else and expect them to simply settle the crosshairs on the target and hit the same spot I could just like a rifle. You can't do that with a bow. You must tune the archer and the mechanics of shooting if you want to shoot at a higher level.
Many guys barely have time in a year to do this with a compound, to them good enough is GOOD ENOUGH.

You are preaching to guys here who most likely are at the upper end of archery, not the average Joe Bob with his $200-300 mid range compound and no desire to BE ELITEwho finds compound shooting as it relates to bowhunting plenty challenging enough already.[:-]

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Bigcountry
You should have told him about how Fred Bear got started. He was an avid gun hunter. He switched to bows for the challeng. I think stealthy is in his pissing mood and wants to argue about what ever comes to mind. When this name gets banned, what name do you think he will come back as?:D

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Well, I know he picked the name Big Duane because he wants to be like me. So he added Big in front of it. I know he is a telecom tech, so I will call him bigT1.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

burniegoeasily I have been reading a few books lately, I didn't realize how fractured the P&Y Club became with the intro of compounds. Many higher ups quit, they drew their lines in the sand, and decided that bowhunting didn't include all that high tech stuff.

Thus elitism was born, which isn't exactly the truth of it. There was no "traditional" archery until compounds. Do you realize until 40 years ago when you said " archery " recurves and longbows WERE archery.

Now, archery is compounds. Split now and given its own new name is what archery always has been, but called something different now.



Anyway, were "they" right in drawing a line ? Is tradgang "right" in that you can't discuss compounds over there ?

I'm leaning more and more to yeah, they ARE right.



titleAndStar(3856,0,true,false,"","")
Matt / PA crossbows and compounds have come radical ways in the last 2 years I've ignored them then. My Dad has an Exocet 225 I think its called. Its a brute. Its worthless stalking, still hunting, shooting more than one shot, its loud, heavy etc.

I know the importance of crossbows. I know the bias compounds have towards them as well. I know exactly what you're saying about the equipment etc. But where we differ is that you CAN take an average, never had a bow inthier hands before and he/she will be shooting 3-4" group at 20 yards in 20 minutes.

Why ? Compounds are DESIGNED to do it. They are ultra precision instruments that are meant to be super easy to shoot. Every year they get more precision too, thats the way of the beast isn't it ?

Where does it end ? Some thought the 65% letoff rule would harnass the box that opened.

It didn't.

G&F rules and restrictions don't harness it either. Now ALL states allow mechanical releases. Most honor mechnical broadheads. Fiber optic sights. Greater than 65% letoffs.

All this was fought for, and lost, by those wanting bowhunting to stay without the technology.

When (not if) crossbows too are allowed in all general archery seasons, I assume everyone is going to welcome them with open arms, right ?

The same fight to keep what some consider non-bows out of archery season continues. The definitions of what is being fought on has changes from compounds to crossbows, but maybe you can see the correlation ?

Please, I've read much on Fred, I try to remember much about the man.



titleAndStar(3856,0,true,false,"","")

RE: Elitist attitude
 

No offence Matt, I have a great amount of respect for you but it has been proven to myself, by myself and by others that crossbow are easily less accurate than compounds, yes a shorter learning curve but none the less the compound has a greater potential. I will not read past this point(nothing to do with your post Matt) but the exclusion of a comparison of one tool to the other is really what I like about this particular section of HNI. There really was no comparision of what everyone here used. I own three compounds, five crossbows and a whole whack of trad bows. I never judged myself and that is what seems to be happening here. Those who truly think they are elite can go and you know what. I have no use for those who compare because comparing and judging is the root of jealousy. No one has a right to do such. That is the job of someone like St Peter. Those who do lay judgement obviously think they are on the same level. This thread is so out of character and I don't like it. This forum was the least judgemental of all that I've visited. Where has this forum gone to? Shame!
Matt, I will tell you one think about you Matt. You know volumes about compounds but you know nothing about crossbows. I will also tell you that your stellar character is lessened by your poisoned attitude towards a tool that you know know very little about. Someone in your postition here in this forum should be ashamed of yourself for parroting what you've heard and not what you know! You obviously have not shot a crossbow much, I think it's time to catch up to your words that you've spouted, go shoot a few crossbows for once in your life. Then speak from knowledge. I applogize for sounding harsh. But this forum has been soiled.
Edit, Sorry but Matt, you talk about the Bowtech crossbow. It is alomst considered to be poison to many crossbow hunters for many reasons. Hunters that use crossbows do not need nor do they want the crutch of a 400 ft/sec bow.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

As far as Compounds being more accurate they aren't they are just easier to shoot....you could put a properly tuned recurve in a machine and itMight shoot just as accurate as a compound....i dont see why it wouldnt.

perception of Accuracy varies from person to person.

the Average guy shoots2-3 inch groups at 30 with his compound...easy enuff on a bad day.

but you take a Pro with the same bow and hes driving tacks at 30-40 yards at a high percentage.....to him, the average guy whoshoots 3 inch groups at 30 is not very good.

to me "Traditonal" Bows (ones without sights), once you get Proficient, where you can draw/anchor/release ina time frameof under 3 seconds...
and hit your mark(say a 3 inch X) at 5-20 yards every time is a huge advantage over a compound at the 5-20 yard range. IMO....(wich is about every deer hunting situation i set up for, 20 and under yards. Almost all my spots are setup for15-20yards max....i have one that has a lane for 30 yards but imnot sure id takethat shotwith a compound even.

that speed of being able to Draw/anchor/release in a coouple seconds is a huge advantage especially during the rut when bucks dont stop very long for anything......Instinct is a huge advantage over sights in these situations.

your arm gets tired holding that 7 pound compound out....waiting for the shot.....you dont have that with trad....Draw/anchor/release... thearrowson targetbefore you know it, let alone the deer.

these are my opinions and experiences anyway....

Compound is a def advatage at longer range because its easier to be proficient at a longer range.

Muzzle loaders i think are a loophole for states that dont allow rifle hunting...go get a Muzzle loader...its got a lot longer range then your Shotty.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

What part about me representing a company that MAKES crossbows did you miss? LOL:D I have them I shoot them, and the ones we make at least will shoot CIRCLES........ABSOLUTE CIRCLES around me and my compound on my best day.

I know of what I speak, I shoot all 3. I hold no bias towards anyone or anything other than I truly feel that crossbows are not archery by MY OWN personal definition. I can take a Strker crossbow off a bench and literally destroy an entire batch of bolts in 2 groups. The ease of use is not just about the accuracy potential either, it's the completely relatable relation to a firearm. Take the safety off, put the crosshairs on teh target and shoot. If you can pull the trigger on a .22 rifle you can shoot a crossbow. The same cannot be said of compounds or traditional bows.
I'm not saying one is evil or anything, just that 2 are archery, one is shooting.

Just caught your edit........then you can try the one that does 350fps like all the other manufacturers.;).

I think you're getting a little carried away with your interpretation of what is going on here. I am relating MY EXPERIENCE with all listed equipment and how I feel they relate to archery and their place in the sport of BOWHUNTING. To me crossbows will never be BOWHUNTING. There's nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong with anyone thinking they do.
TO me they are not a bow, they are not hand drawn at the time of the shot and held or aimed like a conventional bow, nor do they need any fitting, tuning or training for an absolute never shot a thing in his life person to hit the bullseye with.

To me they relate too closely to a gun. The only difference is the bang is much softer and the projectile is not a bullet.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Sorry Matt, I should have said hunt with a crossbow.
I am not alone, your thinking only puts the wedge between hunters even deeper. This kind of public information is Peta's perfect weapon.
If you really want to talk about how easy it is to shoot a crossbow accurately then don't you think we as hunters owe it to the animals we seek to use the most accurate, most foolproof tools available to reduce the possibility of an accident that may cause worse suffering than needed?
I must say that I really am surprised at this anti-crossbow attitude. Now this is not a back-handed attempt at insulting you but how do you feel about Bowtech getting into the crossbow market? This is not out of anything but curiosity.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

oh and by the way.....

I'm the Best there is....the best there was...and the best there ever will be!

hows that for attitude...:D;)