Elitist attitude
03-04-2008, 01:19 PM
#281
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 478
RE: Elitist attitude
"Honestly I was suprised at the attitudes displayed--the staunch defense of crossbows as being "just another bow",but especiallythe methods used to "defend" them. I expected better from this bunch. "
You know...you are actually right...we (I) are better than this cat fighting.
Frustration goes along way to dragging down a discussion. I have walked away from this 3 times now and came back just out of morbid curiosity. I do have a hard time reading some of the comments that are based only on opinion and no facts. Sorry if I got nasty...this is definitly one of my "hot buttons"
Wyvern
You know...you are actually right...we (I) are better than this cat fighting.
Frustration goes along way to dragging down a discussion. I have walked away from this 3 times now and came back just out of morbid curiosity. I do have a hard time reading some of the comments that are based only on opinion and no facts. Sorry if I got nasty...this is definitly one of my "hot buttons"
Wyvern
03-04-2008, 01:22 PM
#282
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Wyvern Crossbow
"Honestly I was suprised at the attitudes displayed--the staunch defense of crossbows as being "just another bow",but especiallythe methods used to "defend" them. I expected better from this bunch. "
You know...you are actually right...we (I) are better than this cat fighting.
Frustration goes along way to dragging down a discussion. I have walked away from this 3 times now and came back just out of morbid curiosity. I do have a hard time reading some of the comments that are based only on opinion and no facts. Sorry if I got nasty...this is definitly one of my "hot buttons"
Wyvern
"Honestly I was suprised at the attitudes displayed--the staunch defense of crossbows as being "just another bow",but especiallythe methods used to "defend" them. I expected better from this bunch. "
You know...you are actually right...we (I) are better than this cat fighting.
Frustration goes along way to dragging down a discussion. I have walked away from this 3 times now and came back just out of morbid curiosity. I do have a hard time reading some of the comments that are based only on opinion and no facts. Sorry if I got nasty...this is definitly one of my "hot buttons"
Wyvern
jk Nobody blow a head gasket.
03-04-2008, 01:24 PM
#284
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mn.
Posts: 3,399
RE: Elitist attitude
I look at bow hunting as just that bow hunting....Sure I get a bigger rush when Iam out with my trad bow then I do with a compound but I also get a rush when I go out with my crossbow more so then with the compound.....
I will do 95% of my still/stalking this yr with my trad gear then any other gear,but if I do groundblind hunting it will be crossbow(durring rifle season)and any treestand hunting will be with my compound..I will utilize all my bows for hunting.
I must be one ofthe Elite few that dont have a problem with what type of bow you use durring Archey season...Due to the fact I cant argue that one way of bow hunting is better then the othe way....
Iam also not blind to the fact that Trad bow hunting is harder then the rest ether and takes alot more time to become proficant(spl)with it...
Iam also not blind to the fact that there are alot of compound shooters that think because they shoot 5 arrows the day before bow season makes them good at bowhunting.scarry.
Iam also not blind to the fact that hunting with a crossbow is easy,its not.they are too heavy to stalk with,too bulky to sit in a tree stand with for along amount of timeand you donthave alot of shooting room because of wide limbs....
Iam also not blind to the fact that some people will never except compound or crossbows as a bow......
I feel the way I feel because I accept all types of bow hunting and dont see any reason to feel any differant....And no body will change that...
I will allways be on the bowhunters side with what ever type of bow they use.....
I will never critisize a person ether for what type of bow theychose toshoot or brand of bow they shoot with......
I will do 95% of my still/stalking this yr with my trad gear then any other gear,but if I do groundblind hunting it will be crossbow(durring rifle season)and any treestand hunting will be with my compound..I will utilize all my bows for hunting.
I must be one ofthe Elite few that dont have a problem with what type of bow you use durring Archey season...Due to the fact I cant argue that one way of bow hunting is better then the othe way....
Iam also not blind to the fact that Trad bow hunting is harder then the rest ether and takes alot more time to become proficant(spl)with it...
Iam also not blind to the fact that there are alot of compound shooters that think because they shoot 5 arrows the day before bow season makes them good at bowhunting.scarry.
Iam also not blind to the fact that hunting with a crossbow is easy,its not.they are too heavy to stalk with,too bulky to sit in a tree stand with for along amount of timeand you donthave alot of shooting room because of wide limbs....
Iam also not blind to the fact that some people will never except compound or crossbows as a bow......
I feel the way I feel because I accept all types of bow hunting and dont see any reason to feel any differant....And no body will change that...
I will allways be on the bowhunters side with what ever type of bow they use.....
I will never critisize a person ether for what type of bow theychose toshoot or brand of bow they shoot with......
03-04-2008, 01:25 PM
#285
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Obama made me join the NRA for 5 years !
Posts: 2,181
RE: Elitist attitude
Why is a .22 hornet a legal rifle round for deer in one state, but if you cross the state boundary it is suddenly only a legal varmint round?
NEW61375interesting stats for sure. IF they go up - what will happen in your opinon ?
Whats funny is most are not even trad shooters. And Duane must be going thru some real rough times. Usually he can debate ok, but now, he is looking rather rediculus, with circular arguments.
Is that what bowhunting is to you? That one aspect of the hunt, the drawing and holdingof the bow? Of course it's not so while I understand the point I don't see how it is that significant.
I honestly DO believe that.
I am, however, semi-retired from deer hunting, in part because I got tired of all the nonsense and bickering that seems to accompany it nowdays.
Schultzywhat about all the public land hunters ? Thats when the competition for hunting seasons reallt hits the fan
And if you have ever heard two guys screamng at each other out in the woods over who gets to put a stand where, then you would know that some folks do bicker while out there.
I just took the oportunity to state my opinion. Honestly I was suprised at the attitudes displayed--the staunch defense of crossbows as being "just another bow",but especiallythe methods used to "defend" them. I expected better from this bunch.
I can't knock crossbows LBR because its a fact they ARE bows (thus the name) they are steeped in archery history, they have limbs and a string that deliver an arrow, they can't shoot any further than a compound, they can't shoot as high a score on a 3D range, they're cumbersome and not as well suited for hunting as some might think ......
Question LBR - lets say 20,000 crossbow kills in Arkansas had NOT been using crossbows but compounds. How many kills do you think it WOULD have been ? 18,000 ? 17,000 ?
Now, put a recurve in the hands of those hunters, maybe 2,000 kills ?
Compounds are the CHOICE of bowhunters in states that allow compounds. For now anyway. There is a reason - they're all the weapon and more, they're easy, fast, quiet, light, easy to reload, triggered, sighted, .... they're designed to SHOOT
I can't knock one without knocking the other. I don't see how its possible for anyone to do it to be honest.
Allow it all, or ban the technology back. Which to believe is the issue for me
And who cares if they are making bows better. The challenge should be in getting into the postion to make a good shot, not playing a game of using the most difficult thing you can find to make the shot.
Lanse couche coucheand right there shows you've never hunted with a bow and especially not traditional archery. There is SO MUCH more to than getting within g30 yards. So much more. The difficulty IS the hunting, the kill has less and less to do with it the more you get into the hunt itsself.
Thats what I was saying, technology breeds that belief Lanse couche coucheand its bad for Hunting IMO
03-04-2008, 01:25 PM
#286
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Wyvern Crossbow
Your opinion that a crossbow is not a bow is just that...an opinion. Facts dispute that but that does not matter to you, so we moved on...
"Do you understand why some people like myself have a problem with these xbows being locked and ready to be shot unlike my recurve? This is my only problem with them. Do you understand why it might bug me some?"
If you own your own land...and no one else is bothering you...WHY DOES IT BUG YOU??? What does it matter?? There is a "Schultzy Standard" of what "bowhunting" really is...and if it does not fall into that standard it is not "bowhunting". That is the best shining example of Elitist attitude this thread has generated. I think that you are a fine example of a traditional bow hunter who has skill and determination andyou probablyget more joy from a well placed shot on a doe than most compound hunters do from killing a 10pt buck. That is a great thing that you are obviously and rightfully so proud of. But to actuallyclaim that a bow is not a bow when it is proven to be so and tohate another archer so muchsimply because he isnot able to stand up to the "Schultzy Standard" then that goeswell beyond pride.
"I see and understand your opinions but yet have I seen you understand mine"
As a longbowman...I have tried to understand them...honestly. But it all boils down to sefishness and distain for anything that does not meet your standard. Rather than helping the sport, you are hurting it. For every 10kids that picks up arecurve we are lucky if 1 keeps shooting it. I am a NASP instructor, and a bowhunter safety instructor. I dont get paid for this, I do it to help keep the sport growing. The main thing is to give these kids a level of success and fun...THEN challenge them with harder equipment and tactics. THAT is how we can grow this sport. It is a diferant breed of kids out there now...There is a reason we use compounds in the NASP program....
Again...no one with a crossbow or a compound is stopping you from hunting your way. You have no right to force your opinion onto other people without having it based in fact, and the "its not a bowor bowhunting to ME!" is not a fact...
Wyvern
Your opinion that a crossbow is not a bow is just that...an opinion. Facts dispute that but that does not matter to you, so we moved on...
"Do you understand why some people like myself have a problem with these xbows being locked and ready to be shot unlike my recurve? This is my only problem with them. Do you understand why it might bug me some?"
If you own your own land...and no one else is bothering you...WHY DOES IT BUG YOU??? What does it matter?? There is a "Schultzy Standard" of what "bowhunting" really is...and if it does not fall into that standard it is not "bowhunting". That is the best shining example of Elitist attitude this thread has generated. I think that you are a fine example of a traditional bow hunter who has skill and determination andyou probablyget more joy from a well placed shot on a doe than most compound hunters do from killing a 10pt buck. That is a great thing that you are obviously and rightfully so proud of. But to actuallyclaim that a bow is not a bow when it is proven to be so and tohate another archer so muchsimply because he isnot able to stand up to the "Schultzy Standard" then that goeswell beyond pride.
"I see and understand your opinions but yet have I seen you understand mine"
As a longbowman...I have tried to understand them...honestly. But it all boils down to sefishness and distain for anything that does not meet your standard. Rather than helping the sport, you are hurting it. For every 10kids that picks up arecurve we are lucky if 1 keeps shooting it. I am a NASP instructor, and a bowhunter safety instructor. I dont get paid for this, I do it to help keep the sport growing. The main thing is to give these kids a level of success and fun...THEN challenge them with harder equipment and tactics. THAT is how we can grow this sport. It is a diferant breed of kids out there now...There is a reason we use compounds in the NASP program....
Again...no one with a crossbow or a compound is stopping you from hunting your way. You have no right to force your opinion onto other people without having it based in fact, and the "its not a bowor bowhunting to ME!" is not a fact...
Wyvern
03-04-2008, 01:33 PM
#288
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Elitist attitude
Duane,
My statement about rifles and traps was to make a point about how legal status and attitudes toward something can change just by crossing a border. Have states really traditionally not permitted crossbows because they aren't recognized as bows. Or, has it been more of an issue of simply not permitting them because they were viewed as providing some sort of unfair advantage compared to other bows? And, as i said before, that is really a moot point anyway, since more and more states are permitting crossbows. Laws, like hunting technology and peoples attitudes toward it, do change. You don't have to like it, but when you start preaching against it, you do come across like a soapbox preacher in the French Quarter during Mardi Gras.
My statement about rifles and traps was to make a point about how legal status and attitudes toward something can change just by crossing a border. Have states really traditionally not permitted crossbows because they aren't recognized as bows. Or, has it been more of an issue of simply not permitting them because they were viewed as providing some sort of unfair advantage compared to other bows? And, as i said before, that is really a moot point anyway, since more and more states are permitting crossbows. Laws, like hunting technology and peoples attitudes toward it, do change. You don't have to like it, but when you start preaching against it, you do come across like a soapbox preacher in the French Quarter during Mardi Gras.
03-04-2008, 01:35 PM
#289
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
Thanks New! There is nothing I can do about the new way of bow hunting. It is what it is! I just cringe when someone can sit there and pull a trigger on a bow thats already cocked and loaded and call it bow hunting. I know I'm in the minority on how I feel about this. Yes I might be old fashioned, just the way I am I guess.
ORIGINAL: NEW61375
First let me say great buck this past season Schultzy, respect.
Let me ask you something if you don't mind. None of those pictures are bow hunting. They are just pictures and what bowhunting is and means to everyone is as varied as all ofour preferences in weapons. Although I understand the point you are making about the crossbow being cocked my question is this, Is that what bowhunting is to you? That one aspect of the hunt, the drawing and holdingof the bow? Of course it's not so while I understand the point I don't see how it is that significant. It's kind of like a guy with a compound who only has to hold 10-15% of his drawweight, that's nothing like a recurve or longbow but we just kind of accept that asdifferences in equipment, but you throw a crossbow into the mix and a lot of acceptance goes out the window.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
One quick question for you Ranger. Do you understand why some people like myself have a problem with these xbows being locked and ready to be shot unlike my recurve? This is my only problem with them. Do you understand why it might bug me some? For crying out loud you put the scope on the animal and pull a trigger!! Is that bow hunting? I thought we were suppose to draw our bows back, not have them locked and loaded like a gun. I guess I don't understand this and to me its the farthest thing from bow hunting being it has limbs and a string. That picture that wyvern put up with the compound and the prod, thats not bow hunting to me either! Is that picture bow hunting to you?
ORIGINAL: ranger56528
you can say what you all want but it dosnt change the fact that they are all bows.
Long(bow).
Recurve(bow)
Compound(bow).
Cross(bow)....recurve or compound...
Now 3 of these fit the Bow as in bent stick with a string attached to both ends..
Then there are 2 that are the big ?.that being compound and crossbow compound witch use 2 limbs and more then 1 string/cable and have 1 or more pullies....But no matter how you look at it they all have limbs and propel a arrow......
Now if they would of called 2 of these guns as in CROSSGUN then we would have a reason to argue about it,but they are not....
I wounder if Fisherman call fishing with a Depth Finder really fishing or do they want a differant season for people that use depth finders....I dont think so....
You can arrgue/bicker all you want but as long as they are referd to as bows thats what they are Bows...
If you cant precive that these are all bows then you(as everyone)need to buy your own Privet land and hunt it with your type of bow and live in your own little world and leave the rest alone.
Question..
I have hunted for 24 yrs with bow only this will be my 25th year,now being how Ive used the bow only for this long and own all 5 types,recurve,longbow,compound,crossbow compound and recurve are anyof you going to tell me Iam not a true bow hunter...or that Iam lazzy because I have chosen to own a compound and crossbow....I hope Not. I put just as much time inthru the year with all my bows to be the best I can be and getting to understand the bow its self.....
I am what I am...A Bowman 1st and a Hunter 2nd......
you can say what you all want but it dosnt change the fact that they are all bows.
Long(bow).
Recurve(bow)
Compound(bow).
Cross(bow)....recurve or compound...
Now 3 of these fit the Bow as in bent stick with a string attached to both ends..
Then there are 2 that are the big ?.that being compound and crossbow compound witch use 2 limbs and more then 1 string/cable and have 1 or more pullies....But no matter how you look at it they all have limbs and propel a arrow......
Now if they would of called 2 of these guns as in CROSSGUN then we would have a reason to argue about it,but they are not....
I wounder if Fisherman call fishing with a Depth Finder really fishing or do they want a differant season for people that use depth finders....I dont think so....
You can arrgue/bicker all you want but as long as they are referd to as bows thats what they are Bows...
If you cant precive that these are all bows then you(as everyone)need to buy your own Privet land and hunt it with your type of bow and live in your own little world and leave the rest alone.
Question..
I have hunted for 24 yrs with bow only this will be my 25th year,now being how Ive used the bow only for this long and own all 5 types,recurve,longbow,compound,crossbow compound and recurve are anyof you going to tell me Iam not a true bow hunter...or that Iam lazzy because I have chosen to own a compound and crossbow....I hope Not. I put just as much time inthru the year with all my bows to be the best I can be and getting to understand the bow its self.....
I am what I am...A Bowman 1st and a Hunter 2nd......
Let me ask you something if you don't mind. None of those pictures are bow hunting. They are just pictures and what bowhunting is and means to everyone is as varied as all ofour preferences in weapons. Although I understand the point you are making about the crossbow being cocked my question is this, Is that what bowhunting is to you? That one aspect of the hunt, the drawing and holdingof the bow? Of course it's not so while I understand the point I don't see how it is that significant. It's kind of like a guy with a compound who only has to hold 10-15% of his drawweight, that's nothing like a recurve or longbow but we just kind of accept that asdifferences in equipment, but you throw a crossbow into the mix and a lot of acceptance goes out the window.
03-04-2008, 01:36 PM
#290
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Big Duane
NEW61375 I think there can be a really good argument put forth that hunting itsself gets lost when technology is introduced. What hunting IS .... its degraded, eroded, bastardized, chiseled away at etc with technology and all that comes with it.
I honestly DO believe that.
Lanse couche coucheand right there shows you've never hunted with a bow and especially not traditional archery. There is SO MUCH more to than getting within g30 yards. So much more. The difficulty IS the hunting, the kill has less and less to do with it the more you get into the hunt itsself.
Thats what I was saying, technology breeds that belief Lanse couche coucheand its bad for Hunting IMO
NEW61375 I think there can be a really good argument put forth that hunting itsself gets lost when technology is introduced. What hunting IS .... its degraded, eroded, bastardized, chiseled away at etc with technology and all that comes with it.
I honestly DO believe that.
Lanse couche coucheand right there shows you've never hunted with a bow and especially not traditional archery. There is SO MUCH more to than getting within g30 yards. So much more. The difficulty IS the hunting, the kill has less and less to do with it the more you get into the hunt itsself.
Thats what I was saying, technology breeds that belief Lanse couche coucheand its bad for Hunting IMO
Maybe the reliance on technology could be bad but unless you get out there and "hunt" no technology will automatically put animals in front of you.